Orange Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Before, or if didn't exist, computers were anyone in visualization business? Recently on vacation i saw alot of work with traditional illustration - paper, pencils and watercolors. Looks still a market for this beside cg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Hi Carlos good post traditional visualisation techniques is still an extremely strong line of business, in the UK atleast. I started my career about 14 years ago or something, when autocad was in rel.9, so before art packages and 3d visualisation packages were even thought of. When i started work i was on a drawing board for 2 years doing standard architectural stuff, but i never did any freehand visualisations. there were other guys in work that did that. I jumped on the band waggon when CAD started to take off and have been here ever since. I naturally draw and paint, but never architectural. i wish i had. I love to look at traditional art work of buildings. Even tho i do all my companies 3d visuals now, we still regulally employ a watercolor artist to help out on a weekly bases. Because he can knock out paintings of several views overnight, and relativily cheaply, whereas it takes me a good few days to models my work. i really do miss traditional art work, and i love it, but it's still a good business in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Before computers, people learned the fundamentals of illustration rather than the fundamentals of creating a Multi-Layer Shellac Material with Fresnel Reflections. [ :angeuhoh: ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 Hi Strat and kid, I like very much see traditional art. I'm not in the visualization business (i'm designer) but when started learning a 3d application (to improve my renderings) the architecture visualization quality work these days attonished me, and got curious to see where this art come from. Also curious if anyone jump from traditional to cg, know an artist who on early days use a 3d app to help him with perspective, and work from that. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Alexander Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Orange, Interesting line of thought. Where did it come from?- evolution from CAD technologies? Fruedian envy of engineers, i.e. catia, by non engineers? A neat little gizmo program that caught on? Someone who's been envolved from early on should post. Jeff, Ernest, Nisus....? Before computers, people learned the fundamentals of illustration rather than the fundamentals of creating a Multi-Layer Shellac Material with Fresnel Reflections. Kid, sounding kind of sentimental for an earlier and much more pure idealistic age? :angesigh: Your correct in the sense of view-composition- the lofty nature of illustration. But one could not illustrate with out the fundamental knowledge of things like the "Color wheel & Theory", the physics of light and the human eye-brain phsyc understanding. The meat of a good art/illustration is in the details. How the paint is blended, how it flows and interacts with the canvas media, how the absence or presence of color expresses specular light, how contrast is created and applied. So..... I do not understand how focus on CG material creation technique is contrary to the traditional medias-photography... manual illustration art. Is that not the same as blending colors on the pallette, experiementing with the application techniques before painting the scene. I'm not trying to be abrasive Kid, but that line of thought makes it sound like theres somekind of magic to traditional art work that does not exist in CG. That good composition would not be totally undermined by one poorly developed material. The focus on technique -material creation- has been the hallmark of many famous artists. Composition and technical skill go hand in hand and both feed and increase the other. Do you see what I'm saying? It's just a different media. Although it's typical to hyper focus on technique and miss the big picture, anywhere. rgrds WDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I was just having fun. If there is magic missing from CG it's not the medium at fault, but rather, the artist. I'm not one of these zealots who condems CG as inferior to traditional media. On the subject of colour theory, my uncle thought I was an idiot when I said Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow were primaries, with Red and Blue infact being secondary hues. That argument lasted for hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Denby Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I'm from a traditional illustration background, infact, I've only been 100% digital for 4 years. before that I used markers, Pastels and gouache for about 10 years on architecture and 8 years before that on interiors. I like to think my digital work reflects the style I developed in my traditional days. I could show you my traditional stuff if you really really wanted me to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 I could show you my traditional stuff if you really really wanted me to! Yes, please. Thanks, Dibbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3d-doctor Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 from orange know an artist who on early days use a 3d app to help him with perspective, and work from that some of us still do this now. probably a quarter of my time is on concept models block models rough drafts digital sketches .......call it whatever but rather than trying to emulate a photgraph of which is what a lot of the younger guys in this field do (and i was guilty too) i now find myself comfortable with software and thus explore illustration with an eye on physics another eye art and the third eye on time/budget/technolgy constraints on a side note i'd recommend to all picking up a demo of alais studio tools if the need to sketch/model/create is strong - it's aimed at product design but with a left field view it can be applied to architecture or engineering in the wider sense.....it's not the tools it's the ideas pushing the tools that count. anyway a little off topic b4 computers i was a technical guy ( i still am working as a all rounder from concept to completion on hospital projects) but was always intrested in the freehand illustrations that i'd see being prsented and always loved the marker sketches for concept cars although my own skills never cut it and never had the time to practice techniques with the advent of cad and that always helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I started using computers when I was 6. I don't even know what it was like pre-computer. Must of sucked ass. What'd you old timers do? Go actually meet people face to face? How'd you deal with the smell? Another good thread to start would be what everyone did "pre-internet". How'd you solve complex problems? Technical issues? Share techniques? I'm surprised google hasn't made their own google operating system, and shipping tiny little laptop computers which are only for the sole use of connecting to a worldwide wireless google search engine. Would make billions . Obviously I'm not awake yet and drifting from topic to topic. Well back to the original comments. I'm not an architect, but I am an artist (with an art degree...yay). One of the fudamental problems with CG is that its based on something which is dynamic and constantly changing. The software you learn today, will be different next year. The hardware replaced or advanced in less then 6 months. These are situations which can quickly render someone who isn't adaptable lost in a quickly changing community of transforming technology. I've seen some individuals graduate from "technical" schools only to find out their skills are already obsolete, because the program they used to learn on, has been merged with program 2, and so on and so on. The skills that don't change, and remain constant, are the ones that usually aren't concentrated on. Color, Composition, Lighting, Contrast, Perspective, Sketching, Modeling, and fundamental concepts of design. I had more to say, but coffee not in system yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Denby Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Yes, please. Thanks, Dibbers. This one was done about 6 years ago using marker, pastel and gouache. it was a nightmare to set up the perspective! It took nearly 2 weeks to produce A1 size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Before, or if didn't exist, computers were anyone in visualization business? I'm still not 100% CG, and when I am doing CG I try to make it not look so much like pure CG. News flash: drawing is fun I don't even know what it was like pre-computer.What'd you old timers do? Go actually meet people face to face? Another good thread to start would be what everyone did "pre-internet". How'd you solve complex problems? Technical issues? Share techniques?Greg, you smart-ass, you. Maybe you are cranky because you need a new diapy? Yes, we met face to face, and let me tell you, sex was better that way. A few years ago I gave a computer to an illustrator friend of mine, hoping it would open new ways to work for him--what's the first thing he did with it? Meet somebody in a chat room for computer sex. Pre-internet? does 8-N-1 mean anything to you? Before that we had FAXES, and before that, well, messengers. Solving problems was done on paper, with a pencil, triangle, Mayline straightedge, and a scale. Perspectives added to need for a really BIG drafting table (mine is 6 feet wide) and some pins and very long rulers. Oh, and lots of tape, can't solve problems without tape. But I was spoiled. I still keep my fathers' sliderule from architecture school next to my computer. If you only know the modern way to solve problems you are crippled. You would be surprised how much of past problem-solving can be applied to modern methods. Even with computers--how many of you can compose a decent DOS/UNIX commandline? We don't really need it anymore, but it lies quietly underneath everything the GUIs are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Ya I'm definitely wearing a diaper . Its the only way I can handle my own BS . I do agree completely with you. Those who only know the new ways are utterly crippled when the power goes out. 95% of 3E's table designs come from paper napkins . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Very nice work dibbers. I can see very clearly that you use the computer as a just another tool at your disposal to achieve the same goal you've always had, rather than placing your faith in the software..."Ooo, what's that button do...coool" I guess my original comment came from my belief, much better articulated by Ernest. If you only know the modern way to solve problems you are crippled. You would be surprised how much of past problem-solving can be applied to modern methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 Nive work, Dibbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 I mean nice - the c buttom is way too close to the v :angerazz: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I took this picture today. It is what I did while we were without power for 12 days (Isabel). My husband brought my old drafting table down from the attic (is that love or what?). I could see well enough to draft until about 5pm. That's medical tape instead of drafting dots and bond instead of vellum. It kept me sane anyway. http://www.surrealstructures.com/AftermathOfIsabel.jpg (about 60kb) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 What a trooper, and no electric eraser! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Erthal Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Did you try using undo? I can sometimes surprise myself doing it!! :ngelaugh: :ngelaugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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