Architects Sketches

[Ras]

HI Stephane/King

 

That is such a good attitude. Cool - you know. Gives a much better point of departure for the discussion.

[garethace]

Listen guys, there is no discussion about architecture at all on this forum period.... yet it calls itself CG Architect.

 

I have counted no less than 22 separate threads about architecture I have started in the architecture section here, and bar a few noble efforts on the part of a few architects here, whose names I could count on my fingers, the rest has been a total non-response.

 

Yet what does this totally useless flame throwing exercise still continue to produce?

 

Response, after response, after response.

 

I don't know really how to explain it - you explain it to me, I certainly don't know what to say anymore. I kinda fooled myself for a year now into believing this forum was a place for productive discussion, but after the last week, I think it could be a great place just to have mud fights!

 

 

We have maybe 20 different forums devoted to everything from Sketch up to challenge wip.... yet when it comes to architecture - nada - only 22 threads with zero interest/replies.

 

Except for the two recent ones, where guys decided just to come down there to throw out a few insults and a private message today from the starter of this thread telling me to f*** off.

 

As I say, at least these count as responses, which is much more than the disgraceful way the 'architecture' element in this forum has been handled.

 

In the Nisus post on housing, balconies etc, I tried to suggest a different area of the forum devoted towards a different kind of criticism of visualisations - than the normal GI, entourage, daub the clouds in the sky attempt.

 

Who is willing to run with that concept, honestly, show of hands, vote, anyone? ? ?

 

Just a slight adjustment, a little bit of inclusion and a little exclusion to architects on this forum would do wonders believe me.... rather than a list of a dozen different separate software vendors products and a single miserable 'general discussion' for architecture, with 22 post unreplied threads of mine in it.

 

I mean, guys, the young people growing up today studying architecture have computers, have visualisation software to some degree and all of that - don't you think it would be beneficial to include these people more?

 

As opposed to being 100% devoted towards the CG industry itself? This thread is all about Architects doing sketches, what about a section on the forum, where architects could actually submit their sketches or rough photoshop work? ? ? ? And be reasonably assured of at least some small response by members here?

 

Dunno. If it is indeed new members you need/want..... not everyone has a copy of Brazil, MAX and god knows what else, or the time to use them.

 

But there is a lot of copies of photoshop, paint shop pro, all students have digital cameras, some have minicad, autocad etc, etc, etc.

 

[ February 24, 2004, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: garethace ]

[kingeldar]

so ok few peops wanna talk archi

most just wanna talk viz (if they re not archi u can understand it....)

so let's talk about viz

 

why cant' u accept peops wants?

why cant' u accept peops not inetrested in ur threads?

that happens that's life...

if u were god or somebody like that ok

ur just a himan being like all of us

some of what u say interst peops so they answer

 

SOME OF WHAT U SAY IS FELT LIKE AN ASSAULT BY SOME SO THEY REACT an EMOTIONAL way and the threads last & last & last

 

but it's useless & meaningless i guess

everybody feels anger for what?

empty words....

 

 

(i wish i could express fully my thoughts but none of u would understand a word of my french & my english is limited (writin with a dictionnary on my knees....)

[JHalton]

Originally posted by garethace:

I certainly don't know what to say anymore.

I wont answer this bit.

[Ras]

Alright Gareth - you´ve convinced me too...

 

I´m sure I´ll be seeing you around.

[garethace]

I am an architect. I use 3d modelling in the creative process but I´ll never be able to match the output of the good artists in this forum. I´m saying this to place myself in the discussion.

This is the whole point Ras, you do deserve some representation on a critique or gallery here, despite the above, and so do many others. CG Architect shouldn't just be about professionals imho.

 

But it is not up to me.... so I guess I will being seeing this forum a lot less soon too.

[Ras]

... What happened to the unbroken version of your avatar James?

[garethace]

All right lads, enough.

 

I don't know whether it is you guys or the architects. But I do feel pissed off by these architects, at making me choose not to go near computers at all, in my own country.

 

I suppose what I should be more worried about, is why CG guys have all providing themselves with web sites, and messages boards, while the architectural community have not. Maybe someday, architects themselves will managed to do something like having their own web site, to do all of the things I have talked about.

 

I realise it is hardly the responsibility of a bunch of CG visualists to cater for architects, just on the architects behalf. Sorry for pissing everyone off about this. But all I can say, was it was probably much easier for me to leave following a blazing row, with you guys - but that is mainly about me just being pissed off with the standpoint of my piers and mentors in this country. While struggling hard to make that necessary 'detachment' with the 'using a computer as a tool' side of architectural design.

 

I did take it out of you lot, for a really good reason. I will come up with some other strategy in future, and not have you guys dealing with some angry and very loud young irish professional.

 

Brian O' Hanlon.

 

[ February 24, 2004, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: garethace ]

[nully]

how about you find another forum maybe one where all the interesting architects get together and talk about their interesting lives and work, instead coming here and trying to make people look small.. the time and effort you spend in making these confrontational posts beggars beleif.

[garethace]

Very fair suggestion, when you put it like that.

 

Know of any?

[ShaunDon]

Garethace --

 

I know next to nothing about you, have not seen any work that you've done, and thusly can only judge based on the few threads I've tracked your posts through. One of them being Nisus' thread that you hijacked, so I'll take this to be exemplary of your demeanor in general.

 

I'm really quite unaccustomed to your seemingly routine condescension of most people on this board. Nully's quite right, if you are as unhappy with this crowd as you seem then find the one that suits you. Messageboards are remarkably easy to form -- why not divert your exhaustive typing skills to slapping one together and catering to the ilk of professional you'd prefer to wax what-have-you with?

 

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the fact that the visualization industry is in fact separate from the architecture industry. Maybe it's that you've simply been edged out of visualization work by the creation of the new field, but I don't know what it is you want from us. I doubt anyone here who works with the tools that we do would disagree that it takes nothing short of full and complete devotion to visualization to not only learn but stay on the curve with the rest of the industry. Most architects that I know bemoan the fact that they're too busy to keep up with CAD as much as they should -- they'll never touch 3ds max or other such programs.

 

Don't post on here arrogantly assuming superiority to the rest of us because you may have been schooled in architecture. I envy you, I wish I had that kind of time and money. The knowledge necessary to visualize a building pales in comparison with that needed to design and build it. I would recommend that someone take photography classes rather than study architecture to work in this field. If you can read plans and compose an interesting image, I don't see any obstacle. Providing you're willing to put in the years that it takes to get good at this job.

 

I've already invested more time typing this than I want to. You're obviously an opinionate person and, being of that ilk myself, I'm not holding that against you. I just don't see you having much fun in these parts.

 

Shaun

[Ernest Burden III]

All right lads, enough.

Gareth

There is no reason for you need to leave this particular group. However, the tactic of 'blowing smoke' to see how much reaction you get is not one that wins many friends. You see, I, and I would think others here, take you seriously and give your comments the same respect we hope our own are given. I have been involved in on-line discussions with architects since the early 90's (the DataCAD forum) on which I was usually the ONLY renderer among many, many architects. I'm quite used to the architects' viewpoint, and also an international group. Then was the Lightscape forum, now this one. And in every group I have been involved there has been at least one person who decided to post 'provocative' comments. A few were just because that is how they felt. So be it, everyone has a right to post within reasonable bounds. But there have been a few who post just to be provocative, just to kick up the dust. So your admission that this was your tactic is at first insulting but ultimately quite familiar. I should have not replied, but again, I think your insights are valid and can be valuable. The issue is WHERE they belong. A thread about one artist's art or another about documenting instructions from superiors would not be an appropriate place for the larger issues you are exploring. Perhaps those discussions can go on on CGA, perhaps not. I, for one, don't have a lot to say about the architects' side of arch. vis because I am not knowledgeable about it. I limit my posts to things I know something about (and even then I'm wrong sometimes).

 

To the part where you keep mentioning being squeezed out of doing the sort of work you really want to do (if I'm reading your posts as they're meant) I can offer this: QUIT! If not now, then try to set a date so you can work yourself into doing work that is fullfilling to you personally. I am the son of an archiect that became a renderer, my mentor was an architect who became a renderer, most of my friends did the same. It can be done. You owe it to yourself to try to find a way to live happily. That's easier said than done, I realize, but TRY.

 

I once was working for an architect, partner at a well-known firm, who was being completely abused by his client. He expected me to go along with it. The client would not pay a retainer he had promised me, and the architect told me his firm could not because that client was so far behind on payments to them that they were looking at bankruptcy. So for the first of only two times in my career I quit a project. The architect told me I couldn't do that to him, reminded me how big and important this developer was, and ended with "you don't want to burn that bridge!". Watch me. The point is, sometimes situations get out-of-hand, and we can easily convince ourselves to just keep at it, but for un-realistic reasons. Sometimes you have to just take stock of who you are and where you could go, and QUIT a bad situation.

[garethace]

Maybe it's that you've simply been edged out of visualization work by the creation of the new field,

I am not really going to tire this board anymore by responding with more whine, but.....glancing quickly over your post, I just thought this was interesting.

 

'Edged out' hits the nail on the head,... Having put in so much of the initial work, in getting things established at all - which involved learning to understand computers in a deeper way etc, like Hardware forum here and so forth.... at a time in the late 1990s when noone was even into that, I was busy bringing myself up to speed in that, in anticipation of some big 'pay off' later on.

 

Now I just wish I had gone to the pub! But sometimes, it is hard to just 'pull out' completely out of something which has engaged your efforts and enthuasiasm for that long.

 

I could tolerate being dismissed... Brian, we don't need you in this department etc, if they said it to your face. But it was done very poorly in my opinion. First the computer disappears from your desk, then someone else gets it. Then you wonder will you ever get it back,... and hope... Then you don't get that kind of work to do any longer.... except when work pressures give them no choice but to use your abilities.

 

I just wish they had indeed mention the fact they were 'phasing' me out 2-3 years ago, when I could have looked for other areas to concentrate or something. And there are plenty - I don't feel in any way tied to this.

 

I have been making efforts at phasing out of this thing, for a while now, since the reality of the situation sort of hit me six months ago, ya know. Given my architectural background, I am a very suitable candidate to progress along several different routes.

 

I say good luck though to all the people here at CGA though.

 

[ February 24, 2004, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: garethace ]

[Ras]

Hi Brian

 

Thats nice. I understand now where you are coming from. I´m sorry you´ve been through what you describe.

 

I agree that 3D skills should be an integrated part of the moderns architects pool of tools. And from where i´m sitting it is and will be with my generation of architects.

What we are bashed nowadays about is the "loss of old virtues" (and this is also partly true).

 

Welcome back - you know the feeling of being a little bit closer after a well ended crisis - well I certainly know a lot more about you and you situation now - making the effort to end this on a good note suits you.

 

Take care.

 

[ February 24, 2004, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Ras ]

[ShaunDon]

Gar --

 

I take your meaning. And understand where you're coming from -- I've worked in offices where I wasn't sure my work was appreciated. I didn't have the time invested in the place that it sounds like you had, nor was I being denied my position by anyone... but working for a strictly visualization firm has been a godsend in that way. A production staff to work with, share ideas, and a wide range of markets to work for. Constant new challenges from different designers.

 

If given the choice, I much prefer this environment to working inside an architectural design firm. I miss working with the architects on a day to day basis, but overall the spirit and productivity of this place has me happy to drive to work every day.

 

This has just been my (albeit short) experience.

 

Shaun

[garethace]

Hmmmm,....

 

Quality of life, enjoyment of productivity etc... all very important considerations in life... you realise it when they are gone. If architects are a rare breed, it might be because of the following: Architects are best as individuals who can stay inactive for six months and then at a moments notice become sort of all animated all of a sudden. But most of the time, they are just saving up their energy, or rather waiting for the right time to 'get really active'.

 

Me, I like to let out that energy on a free flowing, regular basis as most people would do. It is easier to regulate and you sort of know where you are going. That would have been the only advantage to me as an architect, to do cg visuals. To keep up a constant pace. But that is something which architects aren't really into - mind you some do sketch on a quite regular basis. These are stored in sketchbooks, which are stored just like encyclopedias on a shelf, and ordered by date. Some architects, I know actually have got that many sketchbooks, that it looks like a set of encyclopedias - the black hard back kind.

 

It doesn't seem to be even related directly to what they are desiging some of the time, but might serve the purpose of filling that vacuum period of inactivity between short bursts of over-activity. It is an area I am working towards - and all it needs is a pencil and sketchbook. It travels well, doesn't consume power, or require insurance in case of theft etc, etc. An awful lot of the said sketchbooks are documentation of trips the architects many have taken to far away and wonderful places.

 

[ February 24, 2004, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: garethace ]

[gus_webb]

ack...i know i shouldn't be adding to this post, but here i am anyway.

 

gareth:

http://www.archinect.com

"pimpin' architecture since 1997"

sometimes good, sometimes kind of stupid architecture discussion, but populated almost entirely with architects.

http://www.dwellmag.com

discussion board regarding modern design; about half the posters are in architecture or design, and everyone is passionate about it.

http://www.architecture-forum.net

even has area-specific discussion boards, so you can antagonize people you might actually meet.

http://www.designcommunity.com

http://www.deathbyarch.com

http://www.smartarch.nl/forum/wwwboard/

 

i could keep listing them, if you'd like.

gareth, if you're not happy with your job, move on. its just a freakin' job. have you ever seen the movie 'office space'? don't be like milton, wandering around in the basement with no paycheck and no stapler. and if you haven't seen it, buy it! it's a riot.

and i apologize to everyone here for adding to this mess.

 

-carl

 

[ February 24, 2004, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: gus_webb ]