DennisB Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 While I don't want to do commercial pitch here, you'll likely never here about us otherwise. We're simply too small to advertise. We (me and the the dog) offer a variety of free, tree and foliage tutorials architectual illustratiors may find useful. We've been around for 9 years now, but we're mostly known amongst Painter and Paint Shop Pro users where our tutorials have been accessed over 100,000 times. Here's the link to the tutorial page itself, http://www.gardenhose.com/tutorials.htm The site is otherwise framed so the primary URL gives you access to a menu of examples and freebie textures as well. Just strip off tutorials.htm from the URL to access the front door. The tutorials require Painter, Paint Shop Pro or PhotoPaint. Evaluation versions are available if you don't have one. We include the other tools you need to complete tutorials. Enjoy, Dennis@DigArts [ June 15, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Dennis@DigArts ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizwhiz Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 hi There Dennis@DigArts the url link has a "trailing" "." so it doesnt go thru from the message. cool website you got There. i am still checking out the Tree Tutorials etc say i can get you all the FREE advertising and presence if you want some, at: http://www.viz2000.com/html/alfa/landscape.html This is a free 3d cg community on-line resource that i am (slowly) building Thanks Randy www.viz2000.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 15, 2003 Author Share Posted June 15, 2003 Thanks Randy. I'll check it out today. We''ve been around for 9 years now, and we're pretty well known in the Painter community having licensed our first products to the creators of Painter. Nevertheless, I work on an old P3 and Mac 9500. Some architects, architectural schools and architectual illustrators do find their way to our site, but they're few and far between. I suspect tools like mine are a natural, however, whether it's for flower beds, trees or lawns. Absent an advertising budget, or developer support from the applications we end up promoting, getting the word out is largely limited to offering tutorials or freebie textures on related forums. C'est la vie. Thanks again, Dennis@DigArts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 15, 2003 Author Share Posted June 15, 2003 Link is fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizwhiz Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 hi There Dennis i just added a Link to your excellent 2d/3d Trees at (both) Landscape: (you are a featured website, now) http://www.viz2000.com/html/alfa/landscape.html and at Trees: (you are a featured website here too) http://www.viz2000.com/html/alfa/tree.html **** Thanks for the Info and online Tutorials keep up the good work, i know one other person who also paints 2d digitally (awesome Images): Peter Dozal at http://www.dozalart.com/ one of These days i am going to get an Intuous tablet and take some lessons in Painter to learn how to do what you do (so effortlessly) Randy ww.viz2000.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Thanks again Randy. I appreciate your generosity, and need all the help I can get That Peter does nice work. Dennis@DigArts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Hi Dennis, I find your webpage most interesting for a few reasons: - I love trees and have always wanted to be able to paint them. - I recently bought painter8 (4-5weeks ago, installed it last saturday) - I spent the whole f**king week painting trees by hand in ps7 (but I loved it!) (I choose ps over painter as I'm a veteran ps-er and not even a rookie painter-er) Although a very interesting topic, I had a good look at your webpage and found it most disturbing as I don't find a real structure in it. I've bumped into 'Jungle 3d' many times, but I honestly don't know what it is. Besides the typeface beging hard to read (small type on a 1600x1200 CRT) too many links disturb me a lot. I just don't manage to read one complete sentence at all. (Mmm... is this my bad hair day?) Anyway, I printed out a lot of tutorials from your site and will get back to you when I've read them. rgds nisus ow, here is the link to our hand-painted ps7-trees... http://www.ams.be/sitev2/public/en/ProjListB.asp?ProjTekst=plat&ID=134&tot=2&nr=1&Land= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Hi Nisus, Your weekend dilemma is what originally got us started. There was just no easy to trees and foliage. I haven't looked at your efforts yet, but let me caution you that the tutorials are written for the Painter 4-7 UI. If you're new to Painter, you'll likely find the tutorials even more confusing than the site. That's because the Painter 8 UI was changed to correspond to Photoshop. It's a smart move IMO, but it's the third such change in almost as many years. You can imagine the burden that creates now that Corel is being taken over. Since you're a seasoned Photoshop user, let me offer this brief explanation on painting trees using the sample nozzles in combination with your PS knowledge. Think of painting a tree in terms of making a sandwich. You'll be working with three layers in other words. 1) The bottom layer is where you paint the background leaves. 2) The middle layer is where you paint the trunk and limbs (We provide a trunk layer already. You just need to paint the limbs on it). 3) The top layer is where you paint the foreground leaves. It's that's simple really. All you really need to know beyond that is how to "load" a nozzle (Cntl+L), brush library (see manual) and create new layers. Some of the other stuff about darkening the background leaves because they're in shade can be accomplished using PS techniques like using the Curve, Level or Brightness control to darken the background layer. Naturally, things can become more sophisticated, but the overall painting process is very fast. Once you get the hang of using Painter's UI, and that's what the tutorials are really about, a sophisticated tree shouldn't take much more than 10 minutes. Can't comment about your hair as I've never seen it But, I linked to the Tutorial page directly because some people take offense at links pointing to commercial front doors, especially when posted by the site owner. Unfortunately, not using the front door makes it almost impossible to navigate the site. If you did use http://www.gardenhose.com and still found it confusing, well I don't disagree with your observations although we still get visitors using 640 x 480. As you can imagine, they complain that everything's too big. About all I can suggest is that you use the Products and Gallery links in the Menu frame. Thanks for the feedback. Let me know if you have any questions after painting a tree. Dennis@DigArts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Hi Dennis, Tnx for your response. From what you describe, I think I used a similar way to paint trees in ps: - I paint leaves with the leaf color. - I add a new layer (multiply) with a dark color using a slightly larger brush - I paint a dark color (normal BM): this step is not necessary but gives better results on high-res trees - I paint the highlights using a slightly smaller brush - sometimes I add even lihgter highlights for more realisms This 'technique' is basicly what traditional painters do, except that hey would start with the darkest color (for which there is no need using ps in multiply BM) The differences I see by using painter is that painter has 'image hose' whereas ps only has a kind of stamp brush, the main difference being the bit depth of the brush sample imho. I don't know painter yet, but have used painter classic before. I'll ahve a look at your tutorial now, as from what I understand now is that you make the whole process faster by using some kind of image hoses... getting into it... rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Nice works (your images). The important difference between a clone stamp and a nozzle is that nozzles work as coherent databases. That is, the nozzles contain arrays of coordinated images structured to recombine coherently to depict a particular variety of tree foliage as it ordinarily grows. (At least that's the plan anyway Another difference is that you commonly paint with dimensional "clusters" of foliage. That lets you bypass a lot of the painting minutia found in traditional techniques. In terms of shading, there's a brush setting in Painter called Grain that augments shading. It can be very powerful. When you're using nozzles, Grain influences the nozzle's color. It actually overlays the "Background" color. So if you select black as your secondary or background color on the Color palette, then lower the Grain setting, you darken the color of the leaves being painted. The advantage is it allows you to shade the foliage you're spraying simply by lowering the Grain value. Moreover, if you're good with a tablet you can have Painter apply Grain based on pen pressure. It's pretty cool. You can do a simple test in Painter 8. I'd suggest Classic, but it won't load nozzles, just nozzle libraries (at least the old version wouldn't anyway). 1) Load one of the foliage nozzles that come with the tutorial (Ctrl+L). 2) Load the Tree brush library or choose a simple Image Hose brush variant (so the foliage doesn't spray too fast or at angles). 3) Select black as the background color on the Color palette. 4) Lower the Grain setting to 35% (dark). 5) Use an upward stroke to spray some foliage. 6) Move the Grain slider to 70% (medium dark) and dab some foliage over the initial application. 7) Move the slider to 100% (default foliage color) and add foreground highlights. Assuming the positive, you should see just how easy it is to paint very dimensional and complex foliage structures. (This technique works particularly well with some of the new additions we've added to Jungle 3D over the past year or so.) It's my birthday today (two score and 15 years ago...), so I'm off to see "Bend It Like Beckham." Have fun, D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Hi Dennis, Congratulations! And tnx on your tips. I'll try these for sure (just ran through your tutorials, I love the idea's) Just to get a good idea: What is Jungle 3d? Is it a program? some scripts? a collection of bitmaps/nozzles? brushes? I still don't know after reading five tutorials and your webpage too... (must be me!) tnx & rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Great movie! It's lots of fun. And that india girl is cute. Xavier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Okay, now I see what you mean about the Jungle 3D product page. How's this? Jungle 3D contains over 700 tree, plant and foliage nozzles (or tubes for PSP) that are ideal for painting trees and foliage, whether for use in 2D post processing or in 3D as foliage textures. Bark and shadow brushes are included as well. The 300 texture nozzles paint trees and foliage with unmatched dimensional realism. The 500 plus mastering nozzles let you customize the product in virtually any resolution you like. That means Jungle 3D can grow and expand with your advancing skill sets. An assortment of shadow nozzles and brushes paint realistic shadow textures you can map to buildings, walls and walkways. They also let you add realistic shadows and volume to your 2D trees. The bark brushes let you paint flowing, realistic bark textures that are ideal for trunk, limb and branch models or simply adding detail to Jungle 3D trees. Tree Forestry lets you paint forty-five different species of tree trunks, limbs and branches complete with dimensional form and realistic bark textures all in a single brush stroke. The assorted sets of Painter patterns contain over 700 trunk, branch and defect patterns as well as textures, brushes and other goodies. Forestry does for tree trunks, limbs and branches what Jungle 3D does for tree foliage. In fact, they were made for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Just plugged you on the front page. That should get you some good exposure. Cool products. I'd never heard of it before. Do you have any plans to make brushes for photoshop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Do you have any plans to make brushes for photoshop? Does the product base on ImageHose? There is a Photoshop plugin called Photospray that looks to work the same way. I haven't looked very closely at the material linked above, but this PS plug-in could be your engine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 Hello Eric and Jeff. We don't support the PS plug-in for several reasons. First, the versions I've seen required that you paint in a little plug-in window. Since I get frustrated trying to paint on a 1280x1024 monitor, that little plug-in window seemed to defeat the whole process. Second, the versions I recall didn't support painting on PS's transparent layers. The last I heard from a user was that hadn't changed, although someone recently said there is a workaround, if not to a transparent layer. Regardless, those two missing features led me to believe most customers would leave the process disappointed not only in the results, but also for having spent money on a product (mine) that couldn't really deliver. I just thought it better not to go there. Now here's another alternative. Paint Shop Pro usually sells for $75-100. The plug-in sells for around $100. Paint Shop Pro is a standalone application, so it uses memory better and you a get a full screen work area. You can paint on transparent layers as well, and save them intact to finish in PS by saving as .psd. Similarly, now that Painter is discounted to under $150 for PS users, it's competitive too and has some other features that make it very attractive to 3D artists. Either way, the cost benefit comparisons of the two applications make them a better choice IMO, even if you only use them to paint trees and foliage. Hope this helps, Dennis@DigArts [ June 17, 2003, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Dennis@DigArts ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 Hi Nisus, I think a remedial writing class is in order Tree Forestry is a complimentary product to Jungle 3D. It uses Painter's pattern painting capabilities rather than nozzles. Similalry, you can't really paint 45 different species of tree trunks in a single stroke (nor would anyone want to I suspect). You need 45 strokes. One for each specie. Unfortunately, I don't have any sample files on the site. Maybe later this week I can put one up, after I finish rewriting some of the page text Dennis@DigArts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 Last but not least, thanks for the plug Jeff. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Tnx Dennis, I understand your product much better now, and again it's wow wow wow! I won't quote your complete description, but this is certainly my favourite one: Tree Forestry lets you paint forty-five different species of tree trunks, limbs and branches complete with dimensional form and realistic bark textures all in a single brush stroke. I'll down the demo nozzles rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 In terms of shading, there's a brush setting in Painter called Grain that augments shading. It can be very powerful....You can do a simple test in Painter.Anyone try it? If yes, any questions? If not, is it a matter of no luck, no time or no interest? I'm happy to help if I can, assuming there's any interest. Dennis@DigArts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Hi Dennis, Since you are very involved in drawing trees, what resources (books, videos, tutorials) do you recommend to draw trees manually (so without aid of special computer tools)? I prefer some kind of step-by-step method of learning/drawing... I just want to be able to sketch, paint, photoshop/painter real life trees... Maybe other traditional artists have clues or tips on a good tree-draw-workflow? (Ernest?) Tnx nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisB Posted June 20, 2003 Author Share Posted June 20, 2003 Someone once referred me to the "Artistic Anatomy of Trees" by Andrew Loomis. I never got around to it, but you might give that a try. I mostly work from nature, and I recommed it to people using my products as well. For me, life drawing without a model is problematic at best, even when the foliage is painted for you. Dennis@DigArts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 some of my links (amazon wishlist) http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/185076932X/ref=cm_mp_wli_/026-9595467-6127601?coliid=ISGXO2A81S7Q8 http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0891348859/ref=cm_mp_wli_/026-9595467-6127601?coliid=IIVJORWEI9SPN But has anyone read those? seen those? are those any good? rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizwhiz Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 hi There nisus no. havent read any of The Links you just posted here is a description of the Book that Dennis mentioned http://www.page1book.com/perl/bookdetail.pl?ISBN=0486214753 Artistic Anatomy of Trees by Cole, Rex V "Long admired and widely used, this excellent text by one of Britain's foremost art instructors is considered a classic in its field. Every aspect of trees and how to depict them, in any style, is covered with unusual clarity and precision. Nearly 500 illustrations by the author accompany the text along with 48 plates reproducing work by such famous painters as Rubens, Rembrandt, Gainsborough, and others." **** sounds good will try to get my hands on a copy of This i have really wanted to learn how to mesh-model 3d Trees for a long Time maybe This LifeTime i will finally get around to it (sometime in This Lifetime) Think Tanks Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizwhiz Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 hi There Dennis and nisus i just did a google websearch for Loomis and Artistic Anatomory of Trees didnt find That, but This link http://www.fetchbook.info/search_Rex_Vicat_Cole/searchBy_Author.html The Artistic Anatomy of Trees, Their Structure and Treatment in Painting by Rex Vicat Cole http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0486214753/104-0653159-4865540 which is listed at FetchBook.Info (for best prices) http://www.fetchbook.info/compare.do?search=0486214753 Perspective for Artists: The Practice & Theory of Perspective as Applied to Pictures, with a Section Dealing with Its Application to Architecture which is listed at FetchBook.Info (for best prices) http://www.fetchbook.info/compare.do?search=0486224872 which is listed for sale (used) at Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/list/-/0486224872/104-0653159-4865540 hey here is a Link to Carlson's Guide to Landscape Painting (highly recommended by those who have read and used it) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486229270/ref=lib_rd_ss_TFCV/104-0653159-4865540?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader&img=1#reader-link a link to landscapist http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486229270/ref=lib_dp_sp_1/104-0653159-4865540?v=glance&s=books&vi=slide-show#reader-link here is a Amazon link to Landscape Books: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/520984/ref=br_bx_c_2_0/104-0653159-4865540 Bionatics has released V2.0 of their plant software and CG Trees http://www.vterrain.org/Plants/plantsw.html google search results for "cg Trees" http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=%22cg+trees%22 i am definately interested in learning how to do 2/3d Trees (going to buy Imagecels "Desert Trees" one of These days) later Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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