arkitect Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 -vray free version- 1. Has anyone ever had problems with transparent objects? I mean, when I render let's say an architectural exterior with windows that have full opacity, rendertimes are "normal" (reflections on); but when I lower the opacity (range 0-99) rendertimes seem to be twice as long. Any other transparent object seems to do this. Maybe this is normal, I don't know. 2. I sometimes use cars on exterior renderings. I had such a bad time trying to adjust the materials (metal) for the cars to render properly in vray because the material used a bitmap in the refraction slot (to a low level, like 5 or so); so the lit part would render well, but the areas in shadow would not. I then noticed that using a bitmap in the refraction slot can make the material (almost) not to interact in the GI sampling. When I switch off the refraction slot, the dark areas render well, otherwise will render almost black. Does anyone know something about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 1. Slow rendering with opacity in materials is a known issue. It has been fixed in the non-free versions. I guess they'll get round to recompiling the free version with a few updates, don't know. 2. Not sure about this one. Maybe best to go to the VRay forum and ask the man who will know, Vlado. VRay Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_vinoir Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 there are always issues with the free versions but it should be a bit more widly acknowledged what is fixed in the full versions maybe have you tried brazil free renderer? this is what they say about br vs vr: "And believe me, Brazil is much better than vray, especially for architecture.Brazil is physically accurate, has much more control over lighting (sliders instead of on/off buttons, multiple light types (not just one),superiour antialiasing and GI, and much more).In many ways,Vray is a hack and when you start to really push the software,it breaks down.It cannot handle large poly counts without crashing or slowing down so much it's unusable.It is much less stable than Brazil.I could go on and on. Even with the slow free version of Brazil I gave you the link for, you will see the superiour image quality you can obtain over Vray. But enough of the marketing..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Who's "they" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_vinoir Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 the monks of a cistercian chapel in the montains of nepal. Very knowledgable!! The people from Brazil of course numnuts! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunstraum.tv Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 @matt_vinoir i have tried both brazil and vray for a long time. and i even worked with fR, but in the end vray was the best decision for me, especially for my archvis. it´s much easier to handle than brazil and above all it´s much much faster. you can´t compare the free version with the advanced one. the same with free brazil and the final release from splutterfish. there were several problems at the beginning, but they worked very hard and solved them. the contact from user to the developer is perfect. i think in the next few month vray will be the perfect renderer on the market but in fact the renderer you use is just a matter of taste... they are all very good !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Matt... I am going to have to completely disagree with whoever said that... Vray and Brazil are VERY similar in the way they do things. The reason that Brazil's anti-aliasing is "superior" is do to the preset value that it has... (2,1)... Vray's preset is (2,-1)... part of the reason it is much faster... If you change it to Brazil's value of (2,1) it will be just as "good" (more samples) and still be faster overall... + Vray has 3 different anti-aliasing sample methods (simple, two-level, and adaptive) with all the Algorythms (cook-variable, blend, etc...) that MAX has. The is currently only "one" light, but that light has all the possibilities of the ones Brazil, plus the ability to create a Light-portal Vray is NOT a hack... Far from true. It is identical Brazil in terms of Brazil. Vray can do a LOT more light samples due to its adaptive abilities. A default subdiv of 50 per sample is realoly high. It also depends on what you call a hack... in terms of true lighting intensity, Lightscape is the only one that has the correct light exposure. Vray, Brazil, and finalRender, all use a method that automatcially adjust the light exposure. As someone that has used Vray intensly in heavy scenes, I can tell you that Vray does NOT break down... I have easily rendered 1 to 2 million polies with plenty of my 1 gig of ram to spare, and with instance rendering, I was able to do 40 billion polies and more, using only about 256 megs of ram. Plus Vray does GREAT TRUE displacement mapping. I am not knocking brazil at all... it is a GREAT package... It has a great interface which is very smooth. I just don't think you can get the best GI samples vs rendering time out of it... Plus Vray has a better price (unlimited network nodes). But don't spread false information like that... it is WRONG. trust me. I want to know who said that... they need to be schooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Originally posted by matt_vinoir: the monks of a cistercian chapel in the montains of nepal. Very knowledgable!! The people from Brazil of course numnuts! lol If that is either Scott or Steve, I will be very disapointed.... I really REALLY hope it isn't... It sounds like something Edwin would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunstraum.tv Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 you mean edwin from cebas ? they are very good in aggressiv pr, but more ? mhhh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seismograph Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 i'm not sure, but the market will answer the question which renderer is better. At the moment i can imagine that vray was sold many times more than brazil. I personally think that vray is a good choice for architectural renderings. I don't want to talk about brazil since i don't have it, but i can talk about fR which costs us a laugh when it comes to rendertime. ..and i still think we all forget Insight which maybe can suprise us with the next version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I really don't think that the numbers of copies is very clear... I personnaly would suspect that Brazil has sold more copies... Brazil has a much more powerful name and is well recognized by the non-max people... This is probably due to their very powerful gallery which is supported by some really talented artist. Vray's gallery is not as powerful, but it is getting better, the recent additions are amazing. Anyone that says that Brazil is a better package based on their gallery, has not used the software for more then 3 renders. Having done this hard core since the begining (novemeber 2001), I think my opinions are based on my experiences not pretty pictures... I make my own pretty pictures. As the moment, I don't think anyone is a "clear winer" in the situation... for a consumer this is a good thing, it gives as choises... the average user, even the architectural user, can afford to buy both and therefore find their own interests. It really come down to liking toyota vs honda... sorta the same, you just pick it on what works for you. AGAIN... a good thing. What I always liked about Vlado and Peter for Vray, AND Steve and Scott for Braziul is the mutual respect they had for eachother. You could see that at Siggraph when they took pictures with one and other. This is why I think that comment does not sound like something they would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Buchhofer Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I'm with chris all the way. Of the current batch, price/performace, I'm behind Vray 100%. With some better documentation and a little cleanup in the workflow (install really), it will be a force to be reconed with. I wouldn't discount finalrender all the way, it is a good renderer, its just not a good solution for rendering. (Hopefully someone understands.) the workflow is too painful and too decentralized to be fast in the beginning, it took several projects of on/off use to really dig into it enough to start to get useful images out of.. Anyway, they've had a lot of time to continue development, and hopefully the beta team has brought cebas in line for Stage1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkitect Posted January 18, 2003 Author Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by matt_vinoir: "And believe me, Brazil is much better than vray, especially for architecture.Brazil is physically accurate, has much more control over lighting (sliders instead of on/off buttons, multiple light types (not just one),superiour antialiasing and GI, and much more).In many ways,Vray is a hack and when you start to really push the software,it breaks down.It cannot handle large poly counts without crashing or slowing down so much it's unusable.It is much less stable than Brazil.I could go on and on. Even with the slow free version of Brazil I gave you the link for, you will see the superiour image quality you can obtain over Vray. But enough of the marketing..." Matt: thanks for the suggestion, but I "have tried to really try" the brazil renderer. I did try it, I currently have it installed (free), but I don't use it. The kind of settings it uses are like the ones in vray. Sampling, rates, almost everything is similar, in a way. Using the lowest settings, it takes forever to render a single bucket, and by the time it renders the second one, I'm cancelling the render. It is said that the scenes should be made and optimized for the renderer that you have, but I haven't found a way to optimize my scenes to use brazil. With vray I don't have to change my modelling at all, nor my materials (just small adjustments). Anyway, your comment arised my curiosity, and will give it a second try. Any good pointers will be welcome. Thanks. P.S. Anyway, I just had a couple of questions, I think I shouldn't be getting to far into speaking of renderers since I'm using the free versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 As you probably know the free version of Brazl is supposed to be MUCH slower then the full version. On the other hand the free version of Vray is very close to the full version. So your speed comparison in terms of free version may be unfair. The speeds may be much closer. In Vray when using Vray materials, you can get a render times that are 1/2 to 1/4 faster when switching to 100% vray materials. Again, this is only available in the full version. This makes your choices harder. In comparing the two I would look at features, UI, price, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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