revit vs. adt

[mtutaj]

According to the higher ups at autodesk.. ADT is going to gain all of REVIT just like Max took care of lightscape.. Revit is about 3-4 years before it is dead.

 

Just a messenger

[Arnel]

Hear it from the horse mouth itself.

 

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=268

[Richard McCarthy]

First of all, why is this post in 3DSMAX forum? It should be in Revit forum.

 

2nd of all, mtutaj, what you hear is just rumours. I doubt autodesk drop Revit. There was constant rumour of such when Revit merged with autodesk, but by the look of things, Revit is the future, there is no doubt about it. Other fear Revit is NOT in the same "vertical" as autodesk's product line, but I see it as a way for autodesk get ahead and stay in the ring. AutoCAD and ADT are slowly been phase out in most architectural practice, people ARE fed up at drafting dumb 2D drawings, hard to use ADT, and it doesn't make sense for autodesk to integrate Revit into AutoCAD because it will lost all its advantages of robustness and speed. AutoCAD is clearly an outdated technology.

 

 

As for Lightscape argument, I must say lightscape IS outdated. that's why it's reasonable for Autodesk to phase it out. It requires certain modeling practice, and not very flexible and tolerant (due to adaptive meshing it use..)

Revit on the other hand, is CLEARLY superior product, that, if autodesk kill it will only hurt itself. There is no incentive to integrate it to autoCAD pipeline as mention before (robustness) and the competitors (Like ArchiCAD and MicroStation) are already closing in on Autodesk that left it no option but to purchase Revit simply to survive. Most Architectural practice over here are switching over to ArchiCAD in alarming rate at past 3 years, I guess autodesk must have took a note to finally act on it.

 

If you must look further ahead, you can also see that autodesk are already on the lookout to phase out it's other outdated products. Autodesk Mechanical desktop, is going to (or was it already?) be replaced by Autodesk Inventor Series of product.. which is actually VERY similar to Revit.

 

-RM

 

[ October 18, 2003, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Richard McCarthy ]

[Kerry Thompson]

Hi Richard

 

You are right, this topic should not be in the 3d MAX forum.

 

As far as Revit goes,I think that AutoDesk bought it to gain market control. The issue I see with all of these architectural systems is that the process of building is not controlled by architects - many other parties (other disciplines, clients, developers) are involved and their buy-in is needed to make the concept work.

 

At present, most of these other parties know what AutoCAD is, generally, but would not have not a clue what Revit is. I am sure this will change but it will take a long time.

 

Anyway, I commented about BIM somewhere else in this forum as follows:

"The Single Building Model and the Building Information Model (BIM) concepts have been around for longer than 10 years with products like Rucaps and T3 Sonata using the principles in the 80's. I remember Intergraph also having a product based on IGDS called Master Architect, which used the concepts.

The relationship between the model and working drawings is not direct and while all of these systems allude to that capability, the current results are a compromise – and I think that is fine – take what you can from them.

Contract documents use a different graphics language compared to a model for visualization but at the end of the day, it is the same data presented in different way and resolutions depending on the end use.

Much of it does not fully work but then I am more productive using an object-based system to place door in a wall compared to scratching it in using a conventional cad system. We still have a very long way to go before the single building model concept can be comprehensively used and there is no doubt that is it over hyped. The technology is only one part of the equation; the whole building delivery process and building discipline relationships needs to completely change to utilize the advantages of BIM. The building industry is very fragmented and the production gains made by parametric systems in product design and manufacturing will be difficult to realize within fragmented structures and relationships.

Best to use the appropriate tool to achieves the results you want."

Interested in your comments.

Kerry

[Richard McCarthy]

I agree Kerry, Autodesk bought Revit sole to gain a huge advantage and an entry into BIM to contest ArchiCAD and Triforma.

 

And building requires a lot of 3rd party participation was also a point I fully agree, that HPVAC, electrical, and lanscape architect/engineers are all part of, and autodesk seems to have many years in developing in those area, and I preceive it's not that hard for them to integrate back into Revit. Autodesk Inventor is one that I think have it's strength in Mechanical area, that it is VERY similar to Revit I don't see why Autodesk shouldn't start linking/developing horizontal business plan with it and Revit.

 

For the 3rd party developer right now, it's not about them the familiarity to develop for Revit, I think it's more about Revit LACKING an API / extension or plugin architecture at all to even start developing anything. Revit by far, is a closed system. This is due to the company Revit (before it got bought by Autodesk last year) was a small company and probably didn't have many friends in the industry to get notice enough to develop plugin for it. Also, autodesk only purchase Revit last year, I think the top management at Autodesk is still UNCLEAR what to do with it, as " BIM " is a relative new term for everyone in this AEC industry. It would probaby start to have Plug-in architecture further down the track as soon as Autodesk fully integrated Revit into its vertical business plan, and start developing horizontal business along it.

 

 

BIM is certainly not new in a sense, those pioneering products have been around years ago,

but as history always shows, it's upto a market leader to make it popular mainstream. It revolve around so many displines with variety of requirement. The complexity of the buildings nowadays (and decades to come) will certainly fuel the growth in this area.

 

 

-RM

[Arnel]

Here is the extract from the BIM debate between Bentley and Autodesk and the answer by Autodesk as to why Revit's feature is not possible to be integrated into Autocad or ADT (ADT is also based on autocad platform.

 

 

"Bentley finds the idea of starting over particularly objectionable and not aligned with the interests of the users. Keith Bentley reiterated this several times in the course of the debate, and one of the questions he directed at Phil Bernstein was why Autodesk cannot build the same capabilities that Revit has into AutoCAD and ADT. He pointed out that MicroStation and Triforma can do everything Revit can. He then provided the analogy of the highly successful Microsoft, which gradually evolved its operating system application from DOS to the current Windows XP, without making any drastic breaks. Can't Autodesk innovate within AutoCAD if it tries hard enough?

 

This is a critical question, one that I'm sure many AutoCAD users who are not too keen to start afresh are also asking. To this, Bernstein responded by stating quite frankly that AutoCAD is primarily a geometry and drafting engine. Autodesk has made a strategic decision to enable BIM with a new and powerful application that specifically describes a building from the ground up, rather than try and build a solution by transferring existing technologies that cannot fully deliver on the potential of BIM. Autodesk will continue to develop and support both AutoCAD and ADT, but its BIM solution is definitely Revit."

 

 

This is a frank and straight forward answer by Autodesk.