chrisdrake Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 I work for a Mechanical & Electrical Building Services Consultants as a CAD Technician. I get a load of drawings splattered with red pen and have to make them into proper working drawings that we can issue to contractors. Over the last year I have been teaching myself how to use 3ds max at home, and ended up falling towards the architectural visualisation side of things. My original idea was to go freelance, but last week, one of the associates at work notices my work on the screen and seemed quite impressed. He told the directors about it at a management meeting and suggested the idea of starting a subsidiary company to do 3d visuals of proposed buildings. This would help us to get involved in projects at an early stage of development. Obviously I would play a key role in the setting up and running of this subsidiary company, and I was wondering if any of you had any advise you could give me. Things to watch out for, necessary equipment, or just general hints and tips. Im Any replies would be helpful to lots of others on this board too. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Make sure they don't screw you. You should be able to command a good fee, given that you are in house, already established with them, and that you would be in charge of a new division. Ask for the best equipment, making sure to tell them time=money. Get a few good machines, like 2-3 at least. The last firm I worked for had a dedicated server that had all of the maps, RPC files, etc., on it. Very convenient for upgrades, new machines, etc. Write up a proposal with all of the hardware, software, and accessories. Those CDs with people, trees, skies, etc., can add up pretty fast. Make sure they know what they are getting into. But most importantly, make sure you are not taken advantage of and ask for a considerable amount of cash, possibly even making note to the potential growth (like you hire someone below you, how much more you'd make, etc.). They couldn't do it without you, don't forget. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Hi chris, Be careful and watch out for lies or anything that will work on a subconsious level. They won't tell you details, but just enough to make you dream and buy the idea. Obviously I would play a key role in the setting up and running of this subsidiary company... See what I mean? Indeed they need you, but why? What's in it for you after they had their share? Be confident that you won't know more than 25% of the whole deal when you would agree to sign for it. So don't look at the open doors only, search for those that people keep shut. Just a few random thoughts: Do you get a fee or a part of the shares? Does your income depend on what you make? How many hours will you work a day? Who will be responsible? How do you plan work? Who searches for the jobs? Where do these come from? Are you on your own or dependent? What is in it for them? Who is doing all the work and calculations right now? DId they threw an idea into your lap that you are developping instead of them? Are they running away with your thoughts? How much information do you keep for yourself? Or do you tell everything? How long will it take before they won't need you anymore? etc. (Well, only a few...) rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris LeBlanc Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Hi chris, Make sure you don't agree to non-competition clauses. They are not enforceable in many states, but you don't want to give any fuel to the fire if you decide to go out on your own. Also, do you currently do any freelancing/moonlighting? This may be your best option to bringing in extra cash. You could also suggest that you handle the 3D jobs for your company as a freelancer. As a general observation, starting up this type of subsidiary is not an easy road. I have seen more end up bad than good. This is mainly due to lack of communication between those who (assumably) have a lot of business experience, and an overachieving and trusting and employee who doesn't have any business experience. If you decide to do it, just don't forget that many people play by different rules in business than in life, and many will try to take advantage of you. You cannot judge them by whether they are "nice guys".. they may not even think they are screwing you, but in the end you are still getting screwed. I would think that if you have no complaints about your current working environment, then it may work out. If however, you think that you are sometimes taken advantage of as an employee, it probably won't. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kainoa Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Hi Chris, Seems you and I are on the same boat. I work in an engineering/planning firm and produce 3d renders. I very much enjoy my work environment and collegues so im hesitant to jump ship to an arch firm (where my work would be better suited). So i too contemplate freelancing or adding 3d rendering to our company's list of services. However, the idea of starting a subsidiary company sounds a bit complicated to me. Chris Leblanc and nisus raise very good points. nisus Just a few random thoughts: Do you get a fee or a part of the shares? Does your income depend on what you make? How many hours will you work a day? Who will be responsible? How do you plan work? Who searches for the jobs? Where do these come from? Are you on your own or dependent? What is in it for them? Who is doing all the work and calculations right now? DId they threw an idea into your lap that you are developping instead of them? Are they running away with your thoughts? How much information do you keep for yourself? Or do you tell everything? How long will it take before they won't need you anymore? etc. Chris Leblanc You could also suggest that you handle the 3D jobs for your company as a freelancer. I would like to here your replys to these questions as it would also help me to decide what road to take. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 suggested the idea of starting a subsidiary company I would ask for lots more information with regards to how they structure this. To me it sounds like they want you to set up your own company, with very little administrative involvement by them. It sounds like they would get you to set it up out of your own pocket and if it doesn't succeed it will be very easy for them to say goodbye, with having no software/hardware overheads liable to them. I would suggest you discuss setting this service up as an inhouse department, set up and payed for by them, with all administration/accounts done inhouse by the company too. Then for financial rewards, maybe discuss some form of profit share on top of your salary, or a commission of whatever % per job on top of your salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdrake Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 Thank you all very much for your replies. They were all very useful. The company that I work for is small, but still one of the busiest in Scotland. 23 staff in the office including Directors and Associates. It is a friendly company to work for. This does not mean of course that I should drop my guard. The main reason that they want to do 3D visualisation is to become involved in projects at an early stage, hopefully putting them in a good position for future involvement with that project (building services). This would hopefully put me in a good position for negotiating pay. The Directors & Associates would be responsible for finding work, and we already deal with a huge number of Architects & Developers. I would then meet with the clients to discuss requirements. I would set out timescales, give estimates and complete the work. Admin would be taken care of by the Admin dept as it is now. The subsidiary company would only be a name to trade under, but operations would still be carried out by the main, parent company. My ORIGINAL plan was to go freelance, so I could use this as a bargaining tool for pay, working conditions, etc. Chris Leblanc suggested that I could work for them as a freelancer. I do like this idea. It could give me a lot more control over my position. It has been suggested that I would be made a director of the subsidiary, which would give me a reasonable amount of control over the running of the company. I am aware that there are BIG risks with this, so its not a decision that would be made easily. Any further comments would be appreciated. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kainoa Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 So how would i approach my superiors with an idea like yours? Anyways, keep us posted on what you/they decide and how everything works out. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 >The main reason that they want to do 3D visualisation is to become involved in projects at an early stage. I don't see how producing renderings is going to accomplish this for the company. You have to have something to work with before you produce a rendering. Chicken and the egg. >The Directors & Associates would be responsible for finding work If they have to choose between getting you $30,000 in visualization fee and $1.5 million for a construction project, which do you think they are going to pursue? Also, if you are a director, you may be tied up legally with the subsidiary and be prevented from leaving if things do not go as planned. John D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdrake Posted November 21, 2002 Author Share Posted November 21, 2002 >>I don't see how producing renderings is going to accomplish this for the company. You have to have something to work with before you produce a rendering. Chicken and the egg. Our company always sees renderings of a job before we even tender for it. We are not an architects or developers. We are Building Services. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Oh, thanks for clearing that up. In that case, i can see where the company can realize a benefit. If they know the services portion of the project is going to a competing company, they can at least try for a portion on the promotion materials on the job. Still, make sure they don't expect the same revenue returns they see on the construction side - tread carefully. John Dollus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Hi Chris, Two more questions arise in my head: * Are you aware that being a director, you might not get involved with 3d yourself anymore? Is this what you want? * What are your thoughts about working for other architectural offices? If you are part of an office, no other office will want you for confidential jobs (competitions, suggestions, pre-designs etc. ) because f.e. they fear that important knowledge can get into circulation. All of this limits your potential client amount a lot. rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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