Animation production process

[Lightning]

This is a question that might have been discussed here before, but I couldn't find the right reference for it:

I've been creating architectural walkthroughs for quite some time, but I'm still struggling with what is the right way to go with the process from rendering the scene (in MAX \ Viz in my case) to creating the final movie, in several formats.

The way I'm doing it now, is rendering the scenes to an uncompressed .avi files and then editing and compressing them in Adobe Premiere. In this way I thought I'm rendering once and keeping the final format as an option, depending on the need.

The thing is that at the end of it I'm not happy with the result. It's not smooth enough, it is pixilated, it flickers, problem with anti-aliasing etc'

I've been experimenting with .avi (divX), quick time, and mpeg2. Since each format has its own issues I can't put the finger on one that I'm completely satisfied with.

I know that I doing something wrong here - what is it?

[nisus]

Render your final images to uncompressed *.tga

rgds

 

nisus

[STRAT]

nisus is correct, but -

 

i render the frames out as sequential JPG's then post comp them later.

 

most ppl say use tga's, tiff's or other uncompressed images, but i use jpg's. you'll not notice any quallity loss and the file size is much better if you have hundreds of frames to render.

 

then i'll comp them out as a .MOV file. much better than AVI format.

[quizzy]

Hey STRAT,

 

nice to see you use the same method as i do, rendering to JPG's with the least compression. Its such shit from bull rendering to uncompressed TGA's or TIFF's, that is if you're not rendering for BETA-SP video or film. When rendering to video, you have to render with fields, and jpg's may cause some issues with that.

 

As to my output: I use AVI, with Intel Indeo 5.11 with 500-1000 KB per second, and I DO NOT USE A KEYFRAME!! DivX should also be a nice quality, and Quicktime with sorenson is very good too.

 

conclusion (well mine..)

 

Indeo codec: Fast compression and good quality for cd-rom use. Big filesize..

 

DivX: Slow compression, very good quality, excellent for web based movies.. Small filesize

 

Quicktime (sorenson compression): fair compression speed, good quality, normal filesize.

 

One other big advantage on Quicktime with Animation-compression is that you can render a MOV file with alpha channel!! But animation compression doesn't compress much...

 

cheers

[Lightning]

Thanks Guys,

I made a fast check for what you said.

Creating the uncompressed *.tga was terrible – it was all jagged –I guess I missed something with the anti aliasing definitions.

The *.jpg was a lot better but I couldn't see if it is better than the uncompressed *.avi since I made the test fast and simple just to understand the methods. The total file weight was considerable lower.

What I did notice is that dealing with thousands of frames individually is quite a headache in the Premiere, unless you compress each scene individually and then compose them without recompressing – do you?

[STRAT]

you can always render the individual images back out as backrounds through viz to a movie format. thats what i do.

[Lightning]

I found out one other thing – when rendering, it does matter what the final output is, since converting a video for windows (30fps) into PAL DVD (25fps) can give very bad results – how do you overcome that in advance?

 

Barak

[quizzy]

what 3d software are you using??

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

i tend to render jpegs unless i need the alpha for compositing, then i use tiff. i like to use aftereffects for compositing my animation, then i write a uncompressed avi. lately i have been using windows media encoder for compression.

 

i would recomend saving your master files in jpeg sequence rather than an uncompressed movie format. i have been burnt in the past using uncompressed movie formats (quicktime) and now i can not open the files.

 

compression choice is entirely up to you, but i have the best luck with windows media, and divx. the quicktime sorenson format looks great in movie trailers, but i have never had luck compressing with it on my own. the windows media player, and the divx playa' scale full screen with ease. i do not know what apple does differently, but when you scale quicktime full screen it is a lot more taxing on your processor.

 

my hunch is that widows media and divx change the resolution of your monitor when you scale them full screen, and quicktime tries to change the resolution of the movie to match your monitor. i do not know if that is true, but everything i have seen leads me to beleive it.

 

uncompresses avi should look better than jpeg, jpeg is a compression format. if you want to use uncompressed footage then use tif or targa as suggested, but the file space you save using jpeg more than makes up for the non-noticable image loss.

 

my one penny.

[Ernest Burden III]

when rendering, it does matter what the final output is, since converting a video for windows (30fps) into PAL DVD (25fps) can give very bad results – how do you overcome that in advance?Barak

Render out with the timecode in mind. Your software should have settings for the frames-per-second choice. You have to know if you want PAL or DV in advance. Pay attention to interlacing--do you need it? If not be sure to turn it off.

 

I think you would never want to render out compressed unless the output IS your final. The harddrive space issue is there, of course. But if you start with uncompressed frames (I always render to TIF) then you have all your options open when outputting from Premiere or similar. The rule is: compress only ONCE.

 

What about using raw frames is difficult in Premiere? You open the first of the numbered sequence, remember to check the 'numbered sequence' box, and that's it. Drag and drop onto the timeline and you are no harder than if the sequence was an avi file.

[quizzy]

aha okay... well in that case render your animation sequence out as an uncompressed format (don't care what format, AVI, TIFF, TGA, etc..) and keep everything uncompressed. Make a project in premiere, and you can render all different formats from premiere.

[Lightning]

What about using raw frames is difficult in Premiere? You open the first of the numbered sequence, remember to check the 'numbered sequence' box, and that's it.

Thanks fot the Premiere tip, I didn't know that.

As I said I realize that the best way is to 'calibrate' your rendering according to the final product, but what I'm asking is if there is a way to create a master rendering only once, and use it for different formats (DVD, Windows Media etc')

[nisus]

Don't render uncompressed *.avi. If your machine crashes, you loose everything. Using *.tga in a crash only costs one frame, or a few in a network environment.

 

rgds

 

nisus

[bigcahunak]

Nisus is 100% right.

Also, if you later decide you want to change only parts of the camera path, or single objects you than only have to render those frames that will show the change, and recomposite in Premiere/AfterEffects.

BTW: that same tip holds for any movie compositing program...