dmedraft Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I am seriously considering purchasing cinema 4D for rendering. I have the demo and have been playing with it some. Can someone steer me to some beginner tutorials for architectural rendering? I have a modeling program, so plan to import complete models into c4D. I just need help getting started setting up the view and applying textures. Thanks, Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I am seriously considering purchasing cinema 4D for rendering...I have a modeling program, so plan to import complete models into c4D. I just need help getting started setting up the view and applying textures. Thanks, Dean The views and textures are easier than importing models, depending on what you plan to model with. C4D has a structure like MAX. It requires some re-tooling of your brain if you are not going to use C4D to arrange your scene. What is the modeler? Views are just dropping in a 'camera' and making it active to setup, or type in exact coords. Materials are pretty dynamic--making getting used to them hard for me. I'm used to only 5 or 6 main settings. C4D has many more. It has no setting called 'shininess' for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmedraft Posted April 21, 2004 Author Share Posted April 21, 2004 Thanks for your reply, For the most part, the models will be created in Softplan, exported as DXF, and then converted to .3ds format in polytrans (that's my current thinking anyway). Well, I'm in for a good learning curve then because Softplan's material editor is the basic of basics. So, are there any tutorials written that you know of to get me started? This may demonstrate why I want to move on to a better rendering program. I'm basically happy with them, but I'm feeling the need to improve my work and I think I've exausted SP's capabilities. Sample rendering in SoftplanI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 For the most part, the models will be created in Softplan, exported as DXF, and then converted to .3ds format in polytrans So, are there any tutorials written that you know of to get me started? I'm just starting myself. The program comes with many tutorials, though not architectural, per se. The question there is, do you need to learn how to do architectural vis in general, or just how to adapt your existing skills there to a new program. The answer will guide you in different directions. I am in the second group. I'm still struggling with getting used to C4D. There are several sub-forums on cgtalk.com devoted to learning C4D and various add-ons and such. Have a look there. What is to be gained by converting a model from a format that C4D imports to another? Is that so you can re-organize the data 'grouping' structure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmedraft Posted April 21, 2004 Author Share Posted April 21, 2004 I guess I would fall into the 2nd category, however, the program I am using is so basic that I may be in the first as well. I am only interested in architectural rendering and eventually animation. I have been blown away by some of the C4D renderings I've seen. My thinking on the conversion of the model is this..... I will still be modeling in softplan because I know that program like the back of my hand and I don't think it would be efficient to start completely at the beginning. I was only planning on converting to .3ds because I thought the models may import to c4d better. Maybe it won't be necessary to convert from dxf. I am currently still using the demo version of c4d, I will check to see if it has any tutorials. I have updated my last post since your reply, please check out the rendering link. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 i must admit i havent seen, if any, usefull or good material/rendering tuts atall. i switched from viz to c4d a couple of years ago on the strength of a non architectural m8 advising me. i tried the demo and within a month my firm purchased me a seat. they then gave me a free week to learn it. luckily i do all my modelling in acad and viz still, so i use c4d purely as a renderer. it is a change of working practise from anything else, but what isn't? i learned enough of the materials and rendering capabilities within that week to continue proffesionally with it. i nearly exclusively used the manuals, and more so i just experimented and it soon fell into place. im fairly happy i've mastered rendering/lighting/materials in c4d now (altho im obviously still learning) so now im starting to switch over to modelling too. i'll keep acad as my modeller, but i'll use c4d as i used viz - for the more organic style shapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 and yes.....c4d much prefers 3ds files over dxf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 and yes.....c4d much prefers 3ds files over dxf explain? (note on BBS software: what do you mean 'message too short? What's wrong with brevity? Sometimes 'no' says more than a whole paragraph) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmedraft Posted April 21, 2004 Author Share Posted April 21, 2004 and yes.....c4d much prefers 3ds files over dxf My intuitions were correct. I would love to see some of your work. Can you post a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 np. i'll tell more on both bits real soon. girlfriend is nagging me to eat supper at the mo, so i'll be right back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorbu Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I just recently started using C4D and just finished my first project with it. Like Strat said, I wasn't able to find any real good tutorials for arch viz and mostly I just relied on the manual and the demo tutorials that are available on Maxon's site. They have a large number of resources available at their site and though it is not directly applicable, the basic concepts of texturing and lighting still apply. In regards to 3ds vs dxf files issue, I've mainly used 3ds and it works great. I remember trying both at first and now I can't even remember why I chose to use 3ds. Sorry. I'll wait to hear Start's explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 DXF is most basic and, for c4d anyway, most old. as i mentioned above, maxon will only garantee DXF inserts safely from autocad from release 12 or below. rel12 or above may be a gamble. 3DS has always been autodesk's original mainstay 3d format since the DOS days of 3dstudio rel 1. c4d and autodesk software go very happily together. thats one of the main reasons i purchased it because if it's compatability. since the .3ds format came out i've been using it and i've found it to be very very stable and robust. handles normals and double facing nicely, and retains pre-mapped objects for exporting/importing purposes. the only thing it wont handle is splines. DXF is great for splines, but i've never trusted it confidently for 3d meshes. it's rather dodgey where solids are concerned, it's not 100% nurbs friendly, wont export mapping/material cordinates, temperamentle with normals, and sometimes vanishes faces from meshes for no apparent reason. not that im making out DXF to be a bad thing because it's not, it's just you'll get much much more joy out of the .3ds format. as for images? i hardly ever post here due to the fact 99% of my work stays confidential. here are 2 examples i can show you tho - http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4884 - this was modelled mainly in acad, then rendered and animated in c4d. more a concept desktop style model rather than photorealism. and this - modelled in acad again and rendered in c4d. because c4d has an absolutely wonderfull built in compositing material/method called FRONTAL MAPPING, i had hardly any photoshop comping to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 since the .3ds format came out i've been using it and i've found it to be very very stable and robust. handles normals and double facing nicely, and retains pre-mapped objects for exporting/importing purposes. the only thing it wont handle is splines. My main issue with 3ds is the triangulation. Working with Lightscape has made me quad-obsessed. I mostly model by hand with quad polys. But you (Strat) or someone else pointed out that the C4D tool to reduce meshes works well. I tried it out recently but ended up using a tool in another program (I don't remember why). Also, my CAD program does not export 3ds, just dxf and dwg, but they're not hard to convert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 yeah, a tool in c4d called UNTRIANGLULATE under the STRUCTURE menu. i untriangulate most of my meshes. altho in essence, a quad is still 2 tris. i know the 3d app view it differently, which is the whole point, but i still find it a funny business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 yeah, a tool in c4d called UNTRIANGLULATE under the STRUCTURE menu. i untriangulate most of my meshes. That's what I tried. I wonder how much it really matters in C4D? I was prepping a file for Lightscape, so there it does matter. altho in essence, a quad is still 2 tris. i know the 3d app view it differently, which is the whole point, but i still find it a funny business. In programs that do vertex shading it matters whether you have one quad ot two tri's. Also, regardless of how you store the data, two tri's are still two entities to one quad--double the entity list. The obvious reason the 3ds format and MAX are tri-based is that they expect to deform any geometry. You cannot make a tri non-planar no matter what you do to it. The other reason I like quads is that they are awfully easy to map--their shape matches any texture--one map, one poly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 That's what I tried. I wonder how much it really matters in C4D? quite a bit actually. it halves the poly count, lets shadow bias work better and elliminates and double facing you may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmedraft Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 Well, I did find some tutorials within C4D program. They are pretty good. I'm on my way now. I see I will have many late nights of practice, practice. I am posting my very first work in C4D. Go ahead and laugh, but you have to start somewhere. I look forward to when I can post a commercial rendering like the ones I see in the gallery. dme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 As I have stated elsewhere, I still rely almost solely on DXF Imports into Cinema (I model in FormZ). I choose this method because it retains layer organization and allows me to keep my files neat, simplified and easy to use. There are of course situations which require a 3DS import and OBJ is another great choice, but overall, DXF from FormZ into Cinema works extremely well for me. In regards to your question about Cinema Materials, I'll try to explain as much as I can as simply as I can. Cinema has multiple channels that can be activated in each material. Each channel can be adjusted through sliders and the inclusion of image maps or procedural shaders (Cinema has many great shaders). The channels in each material work loosely as follows: Colour: Base colour of the material Diffusion: controls how light interacts (bounces) off of the material Luminance: the "brightness" of the material Transparency: the ability of a material to transmit light Reflection: the ability of a material to reflect to objects around it Environment: a special channel which is always projected sphereically onto the object, regardless of how the material is mapped. Us this to simulate environmental reflections Fog: I dont really use this.... I could use an explanation myself Bump: simulated reliefe and shadows based on distortion of normals. Geometry is not affected Alpha: similar to transparency, alpha is a "clip" map which causes secttions to become invisible. Useful for low poly planar trees, figures, fences ect. Specular: "shininess" Specular colour: colour of the shininess Glow: halo like glow surrounding material....works well for neon Displacement: similar to bump, displacement physically alters geometry based on a greyscale map Illumination: This channel only affects radiosity, but can be very usefull. Use this channel to increase or decrease the effect of a material in the GI solution and additionally to affect its colour shift/influence. I know this is a brief explanation, but hopefully it gets you started. Feel free to come over to the Cinema Forum and ask more in depth questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmedraft Posted April 24, 2004 Author Share Posted April 24, 2004 Thanks for the help Steve, Any help is appreciated, thank for taking the time. I have one question. You say "Transparency: the ability of a material to transmit light" I thought transparency was the ability to see through an object. BTW your renderings are awesome. dme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 yup.....light passes through it. I didnt mean that it emitted light Sorry, I speak canadian eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmedraft Posted April 25, 2004 Author Share Posted April 25, 2004 That's what I thought you meant. thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaCyborg Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 One of the good places I have search for the same reason as you to get to know c4d, is c4dnetwork.com take a look at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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