how to improve import from architectural modeling apps?

[Ernest Burden III]

I am planning to put together something (a poll or petition) to prod Maxon to improve their imports from other programs--specifically architectural ones. I think if a few of you who use C4D for architecture could add anything I'm missing it would really help.

 

Here's what I'm asking Maxon to do:

 

Add import filter for DWG

---they have DXF, but why not DWG?

---read ACIS solids/translate to C4D entites?

 

Improve imports from DXF to offer more options for layers/color

---to have entities of each layer become children to a null object with the later name

---or all 'color 234' entities under a null by that name

 

Handle block/nested blocks properly. C4D has a perfect match for blocks with 'instances' which can be nested. But it ignores block placements in a DXF file, makes one copy at 0,0,0

---it should create a master instance from the block table and then place into the model all inserted copies as C4D instances, maintaining their rotation, scaling and position.

---nested blocks should become instances placed as children to the main instance.

---There should be an option to place all master instances into one null for easy access.

---an option to put placed block/instances into the 'null' of the original layer they were inserted in.

 

 

Anything I'm missing? Any thoughts? This sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. It only requires addressing the import filters and not any core code. It should therefore be something that could be done without a new version.

[STRAT]

i fully agree.

 

it's like dxf for instance - this afternoon i was drawing 10 simple straight line splines in acad2004, all the same colour and all on layer 0. i exported them out as a DXF.

 

now C4D l8est release will STILL only safely allow DXF imports from acad as version Rel12 or below. even then it imported all my splines as separate entities.

 

so a DWG is almost vital. viz would not give me any of these problems.

 

also to add to the list, xreffing facilities please!!!!

[Ernest Burden III]

also to add to the list, xreffing facilities please!!!!

 

OK, save me looking this up--can C4D load another C4D file into an existing model and have it load as a self-contained 'null'? For example, can we save a car model as car01.c4d and load it into a builing model later as a single object represented by 'car01' but still have all it's sub-structure as children inder that one name?

[STRAT]

c4d will merge into open files EXACTLY the file you put in, in it's original structure. so you must organise the file to be imported first if you want it all nulled up nicely.

 

alternatively, you can open the 2 files up at the same time, go into the car file, select all the objects you want then COPY them.

 

then go straight into the main model and paste them into a new null. by doing PASTE, then moving en-mass all the car bits into the new null. so quite a manual way of doing things.

[STRAT]

also, a good way of working i think, what i do is this -

 

all my separate c4d models/files i work on i always have a separate null called MESH or something like that, with all the model objects sub-contained in that.

 

this helps clean up the object stack, makes the mesh and the scene items nicely separate and easy to see/use and also aids with your above question - easier to import (or COPY as i normally tend to do) into another drawing.

[Jorbu]

Ernest, thanks a lot for putting this together.

I agree that dwg import would be ideal, specially having the ability to xref files.

 

In general, I really would like to have better 'snap' functions. I'm having a heck of a time getting things to snap properly when trying to precisely place objects together. Something along the lines of Sketchup's snaping capabilities would be ideal, but maybe it's just wishful thinking.

[Ernest Burden III]

Snapping and XREFing both go beyond an import filter to core function. But asking for them is a good idea. How else will Maxon know how to target their products to our industry?

[Wokka]

Earnst,

Great thread!

Why not write export filters for the various software.

In ArchiCad you can save as DWG, DXF, Wavfront, Artlantis, 3DS, Electric Image or lightscape. I'm pretty sure many of these filters were supplied by the software manufacturer and that way you choose your export as C4D file. I think that this would give greater flexibility within your working/modelling environment. Maxon have supplied (I think) this sort of filter for Allplan or Revit but I would not think it too difficult to write them for other software like ArchiCad, AutoCad etc. It does peeve me a bit that Maxon is always stating C4D's abilities for Architectural renderings, but don't back it up with these sort of simple innovations.

Regarding xrefs or hotlinked modules (in ArchiCad), I think they really need to be implimented into C4D. The thing I like the most about them is setting and forgetting. Build a single unit and import as an xref/module hundreds of times, rotated scaled whatever. The trick would be to import only geometry/textures and no environmental objects.

If you want to update the original, open it , edit it, save it and update the main file.

 

Cheers

[jackb602]

Ernest, thanks for taking the initiative on this. I too would like smoother importing to Cinema. I use FormZ for modelling, and currently use VRML to export to Cinema. For the most part, it preserves layer organization. But it lacks a few features.

 

- Cinema should NOT triangulate polygons that are already planar. In FormZ, I can create/display a planar object with any shape, and it will not be triangulated. Would this problem be solved with "n-gon" support? Is an "n-gon" simply a planar face with more than 4 sides?

 

- It would be GREAT if Cinema could translate Symbols/Blocks/whatever to instances, especially for architectural projects.

 

That's it for now. I'll add other requests if I think of them.

 

Jack

[brehaut]

I would like to a plugin or some sort of link to chief architect as it is my prefered modling package

 

also it would be nice if when applying textures i could enter them in measurement instead of percentage and one other thought would be if set selection coud be put in include exclude of lights

 

and some sort of simple automatic lighting system or quicker simpler radiosity

[Ernest Burden III]

also it would be nice if when applying textures i could enter them in measurement instead of percentage...

 

I REALLY hope you are wrong about that. It shows how little I've used C4D so far that I cannot just say you are wrong. When you have a texture that represents a 12" square tile, you should be able to set that as an absolute size, and it can tile the texture from there. If C4D CANNOT do that, then I will join you in complaining loadly about it until it can.

[STRAT]

for some reason (of which i'm probably not educated in yet) c4d's mapping co-ordinates act exactly 1/2 as big as they should. ie, so if you have an area of 30 foot to be mapped you type in a 15 foot co-ordinate.

 

quicker simpler radiosity? considering it's allot simpler and faster than the majority of other radiosity renders on the market it isn't doing too badly i'd say. but yes, faster, much faster stochastic mode gi would be nice.

 

set selections CAN be dragged en mass to the light exclude box. - click on the light to bring up the attributes box, then LOCK it in place. then sellect all your objects in the object stack and mass drag them over

 

 

i just wish you could mass select objects in the object stack in one operation. in other apps you just hold SHIFT and select the first/last object and the in-the-middle ones get automatically selected too. in c4d you must hold SHIFT which adds objects to the selection one by one

[STRAT]

reading it again - by set selections i pressume you mean as in selected faces? denoted by the red triangle icon? sorry, i originally missunderstood.

 

yup, these cant' be put into the light's include/exclude option. putting specific materials into it would also be usefull.

[archrendr]

I don't have very much else to offer to add to the above but I would like to stress the need for this user for better snap options - for example - I need to snap a group of objects to a point on occasion and I really need the option to import .dwg as I use Autocad 2002 just about every day for several hours work. Maybe somewhere near the top of my wish list is official incorporation of the many excellent features of the "Mesh Surgery" plugin. I've got a few unresolved issues which I know are related to my own Windows platform, but which in any case , have not been solved. I cannot use the plug which I paid for and it would be really nice to have the functions actually incorporated into Maxon's Cinema4D.

 

These are really important items to me and frankly, have caused me to look into Lightwave as a viable alternative. I'm not ready to move yet, but it is a really attractive option as I see it.

[machmirdenlukas]

RPC enabling would be perfect!

[Frosty]

Thread about RPC implementaion over at Post Forum

http://www.postforum.com/forums/read.php?f=6&i=103757&t=103757

[STRAT]

also over at cgtalk

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142303&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

 

it's important to remember tho that until Maxon themselves announce it theres no point in getting excited

[Mike Abbott]

Hello to all,

As another C4D user (FormZ for modeling) I can add a wholehearted 'me too' to many of the requests in this thread.

 

I often feel C4D is a fundamentally great product, encumbered with some really irritating workflow issues. I think the basic problem is that the guys at Maxon are very clever programmers, but not 3D users. IMO they don't really understand or appreciate the everyday issues of the guy or girl at the 3D coalface.

 

A typical example is the texture mapping issue STRAT mentions: if you apply a flat mapped texture to an object, the texture dimension is measured from the centre, out to the edge - not from one edge to the other! For example, if you have a 12 inch square plane and you want to texture it with one image, you need to set up a "6 inch" square texture! Crazy!

 

I've requested that Maxon change this, so that textures are measured from one side to the other - just as a cube or other object would be measured. So far I've had no success.

 

They have a suggestion form in the support section of their web site. If you want this, or any other feature, please fill it in. The more that ask, the more chance we'll get it.

 

Mike Abbott

http://www.vgd.co.uk

[Mike Abbott]

I REALLY hope you are wrong about that. [cut] When you have a texture that represents a 12" square tile, you should be able to set that as an absolute size, and it can tile the texture from there.

 

You can, here's how to do it in v8.2:

 

Create a flat plane so you've got something to texture. Create a new material and drop it on to the plane.

 

With the texture tag selected in the object manager, click on the 'texture axis tool' (it has a checker board _and_ axis icon).

 

A blue grid appears in the viewport.

 

In the attributes manager select 'flat' from the 'projection' menu (try it for other projections too, but come back to 'flat').

 

The blue grid now shows the extent of the texture. If you now look at the co-ordinates manager you will see the 'scale' X,Y,Z figures to be 100 units each (millimeters in my case, probably inches in yours). Change these figures to whatever size you want your texture to be - but HALVE them - see my earlier post.

 

ie: if you want a 12 inch square texture, enter 6,6,1

if you want a 6 x 18 inch texture, enter 3,9, 1

(the Z figure is irrelevant for a flat mapped texture)

 

If you want the texture to tile to fit a larger object, check the 'tile' box.

 

 

I managed to make that sound much more complex than it is!

 

 

Mike Abbott

http://www.vgd.co.uk

[Ernest Burden III]

OK, I think its time to compile my 'petition' to Maxon. I will talk to Jeff Mottle about how to organize it. I have been SO busy with deadlines that I have trouble squeezing in time for anything else, even important things. I imagine that is how Jeff's life must be. I think I need another trip to the Yucatan...

[STRAT]

**BUMP**

 

 

you still taking nomonies m8?

 

take a look how stupid this problem is, http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148046 Maxon definately need an AutoCAD-C4D interface now they've released an ArchiCAD-C4D interface.

[Ernest Burden III]

**BUMP**

 

Splines and not polylines?

 

Can Autocad create a single polyline from unconnected lines? I think it can, but can it do it AFTER they were created?

 

Anyway, yes I still have not gotten my Maxon appeal thing together. Shameful...

 

However, while I agree it would be helpful to have C4D read dwg files, there is very little difference between dxf and dwg. Both can carry polylines, which is what you need for your extrude.

 

Now, were I doing this in Datacad I would simply use polylines for the plan shapes, give them a base/height and make them 'capped'. Done. Export to dxf and they get translated into polygons and read into anything else just fine.

 

Does C4D have the ability to 'detect' closed volumes? FormZ will do this upon import to create solids (but slowly).

[STRAT]

Splines and not polylines?

 

Can Autocad create a single polyline from unconnected lines? I think it can, but can it do it AFTER they were created?

 

Yes!

 

but to answer the first question, splines, plines or plain old 2d lines, EXACTLY the same problem arrises when imported into c4d. it seams to make no difference.

 

Actually ANY type of line will do for my extrude, plines, lines, splines etc. max does everything i want PERFECTLY and super fast. why not C4D?, which cant even do extremely easy basic similar stuff.

 

And yes, i can easily do all i want directly in AutoCAD, or use sketchup even faster for instance, but thats not the your extrudepoint we're making here

 

btw, i've further added to my cgtalk rant

[leed]

Strat

I had a look at the file line DXF you posted on CG talk, and tried to import it into Form Z just to see what happens to the lines. and it comes in exactly as C4d imports it. Z is an excellent import export program, but I always have problems with lines from acad, they always brake down with no consistent direction to them, I can rejoin the lines in Z and then export to C4d with no problem,

I feel the line tools in C4d are not so good, but I do not think it is just C4D, it is the way acad exports the lines.

 

Lee

[STRAT]

well i exported the lines from ADT2004 in rel 12 DXF format. the lines in autocad were all exploded and completely individual elements. the only thing they have in common in acad is the colour and layer.

 

i think acad's DXF export is perfectly normal, which is why you recieved them as individual elements. it's down to the 3d application itself to then decide how they're bought into the program. some 3d apps give you different verts/grouping options.

 

also, the above example is basically striaght lines. try this file of the arcs. can you then post a formZ screen shot of how it places the verts please?

 

http://www.nikclark.com/strat/circs.dxf