trying to build a new Intel 2x computer system

[vizwhiz]

hi There

 

i am actively trying to create (from scratch, literally)

a 3d department at an engineering company that needs

 

some heavy duty 3d

 

animations, interactive 3d cranes (moveable around the site)

phasing and visibility of structural members being assembled,

 

and who knows what else they are going to ask for

 

so

 

what would be a heavy duty hi-end 2x Intel system

i am anticipating an approx $5-6,000 range for all of This

 

1. 2x mobo

2. cpu's

3. memory type and speed etc

4. video card (This is very important live interactive work groups presentations)

5. harddrive

6. monitor

 

7. whatever i did not Think of

 

The TimeFrame is 6 to 8 weeks

 

**

 

is 64 bit an option yet?

just trying to get my ducks in a row

 

**

 

i am anticipating $15,000 for the software(s)

so i want to max out the hardwares thru-put

 

as much as possible

for large site plans and 3d interactives

 

Thanks, Randy

[Scott Schroeder]

It depends on if you have the time to build the systems from the ground up and if you have the support to do it. From what I've priced just for my personal use, to build a system can be cheaper but with a high end like you want I dont know. We used these systems below when I was in college and they worked really well.

 

Dell 650 workstatations

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=w65mc&s=bsd

 

You can customize what you need in there and update your price. Right now the base price is around $4,000 with a single processor option and no monitor.

 

Hope this helps.

[Tim Nelson]

If you are spending somebody elses money I would recommend a Dell re-furb system. They seem to be very good deals and I would say that they are very reliable systems.

 

I'll probably build my own system, but if I had a whole company and needed more than one or two systems, I would opt for the name brand machines....I would love to get a Boxx just for the pretty case! Maybe I'll find an old boxx case and gut it & put in my own stuff. Thats like cutting off a 'guess' label of some old jeans and sewing it on to a new pair of generics just to be cool!

 

But really - for your sake I would have them use a good comp. company. That way they'll be calling them for support instead of you whenever they have a problem. Unless you want to be their support - in that case build away!

[abicalho]

I've been using the HP workstation line for a while - used the x4000 and now using the x6000. I have no complaints so far.

 

Suggestion: look into lease instead of purchasing. It maybe worth it. But don't go through anything more than 18 months.

 

Alexander

[Life Style]

Are you sure you should be going with double processors? I've read lately that they don't help that much unless you are doing serious double-tasking or are using a rendering system which does. You might get better results by buying better single processors.

[abicalho]

that is a great idea i didnt even think of That

but, what happens after the lease runs out?

 

You return that one and lease another. For companies, it's usually a matter of accounting. If you purchase something you cannot deduct it (if I am using the correct accountant lingo), and then it depreciates, you re-sell, etc. If you lease, it's an expense which I think you can deduct.

 

Check with an accountant. Laws vary for each state/country/size of the company. I know that we lease here in the US, and in Canada we usually purchase because of the different rules/tax laws.

 

My apologies if any of what I said is wrong - you can clearly see I am not an accountant or know anything about the corporate business in the US.

 

Alexander

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

referbished systems don't mean you are getting less of a computer, actually smart computer shoppers buy there lap tops this way. a refurbished system was returned to the factory. once returned it is hand disassembled, and reassembled double tested, and checked before the company is allowed to resell it. chances are you are getting a system that is more likely to work than a new system from the same company.

[Elliot]

Hello,

 

I am trying to build another sytem. I built one before using double Xeon's and then one using double Pentium III. I didn't noticed that much difference. Now I am somewhat confused with the claims of the P IV Extreme Edition. Is that CPU better than a XEON. On paper it is difficult to understand their claim.

 

I looked at tom's hardware reviews and his claims are that unit differ by .0001% from each other. I used a double AMD machine.... I always thought that was faster than the Intel's. Just a feeling..... not ever quantified

 

Does anybody has a suggestion.....

 

 

What about the Video Card. I had a Wildcat and in my modest opinion it was not much better than an average video card. Yet it was 3,200.00. It helped my ego for a while.... now the 128 mb card from CompUSA is as good as the old Wildcat. I also have an old Quadro and I like that one.... Any suggestions....

 

 

Thanks

Elliot

[David Knourek]

Your best bet for a premade high end machine would probably be http://www.boxxtech.com they make killer workstations and the service is great.

 

As far as the Dual VS Single CPU, your far better off going Dual especialy if you are going to be doing alot of rendering as a Dual will be FAR faster than a Single CPU work station.

 

Tom's Hardware is probably the last place you should be getting your info from. There are alot of FAR BETTER sites out there like http://www.anandtech.com and http://www.2cpu.com I also have a few more linkson my site that may help you out.

 

As far as Dual AMD goes Ill Quote Greg Hess from an earlier post,

 

I highly disagree on the recommendation to purchase dual athlons. I would instead in single processor XP chips...(nforce2) because at least they use newer motherboard technology and support industry standards (like usb 2) without add on cards.

 

Its never wise to invest in chipset technology thats three years old. Thats just bad business sense.

 

Does that mean that dual athlons suck? No, of course not. But they aren't the BEST choice for a NEW set of systems. 760MPX is dead. AMD killed it, its not coming back, its 3 years old and DEAD. It would be better to invest in a dual xeon system on a E7505 chipset or i875 chipset then a dual athlon, just due to the additional support found by such platforms.

 

Think about it this way...you buy a top of the line video card. It doesn't work in the dual athlon...whose going to write drivers to fix that? Not AMD, they aren't supporting the platform anymore, their grunt is behind opteron. Not Nvidia/ATI, they aren't going to support a chipset which is now 3 yrs out of date (thats nearly dinosaur age in this industry).

 

Hell, the 760MPX doesn't even have working USB ports on some revisions =/.

 

I hope this helps out a little.

 

-dave

[Elliot]

David,

 

Thanks for your information. Great help.... I agree with your comments about Toms Hardware page.

 

What about a double P IV Extreme Edition versus double Xeon 3.2

 

Thanks

Elliot

[abicalho]

>>what i was wondering about was keeping the "files" and configurations consistent more just than the economics. i got to get 1x computer 1x Time.

 

Make sure it has a CD or DVD burner and always back things up.

 

Lease the new computer 1-2 months before the old one expires, transfer the data and send the old computer back.

 

This also goes with the fact that computers should be flattened/wiped every year or so, so you'll be doing that with a new system.

 

Now, if you've got the budget every 2 years or so, you'll be slowly building up a network of computers. Is that worth it? Maybe. It just depends on how much money you have available as you go.

 

Alexander

Waiting for my new home system to arrive

[David Knourek]

Well uh Tom's hardware is probably the last place you should be getting your hardware info from. Also there is no Dual P4 Extreme, as far as I know the P4 is not capable in running in a dual cpu config. So on that note for pure performance your best bet is to go with a Dual Xeon wether you build it your self or buy a prebuilt like what Boxx offers. I tend to lean more towards building my own boxes but then again Ive been doing it since about 1993. Like I said have a look at some of the other links on my site which are quite a bit more reputeable than Tom's

 

-dave

[Elliot]

David,

 

Thanks for your information...... I agree with your comments on Tom's Hardware........ Thanks on the P4 EE information. I have built several systems in the last 5 or 6 years..... I agree with you.... I like the link you sent on those pre-built computers.

 

 

 

Randy

 

Sorry to get onboard..... I will vanish.......

 

Elliot

[vizwhiz]

Elliot

 

accept my apology it wasnt really aimed at you personally

 

Randy

[Elliot]

Randy,

 

Thanks for your explanation. Hope you get your contract resumed and those clients see the light.

 

I am interested in the conclusion of your inquiries about the computer specs. I have similar need. Powerful computer for minimum cost.

 

Thanks

Elliot

[Greg Hess]

Actually I'm now revising my original statement to say "Single Athlon 64 or Single Opteron" on an nforce3 250. Thats going to be my new bare minimum recommendation.

 

If your building a dual proc (intel) on a budget...I'd get...

 

1) Supermicro X5DAL-G. Or Asus PC-DL

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/E7505/X5DAL-G.cfm

 

The advantage of the supermicro is its the E7505 chipset (stable and workstation designed) and allows the use of PC2100 unbuffered DDR, which allows you to purchase craploads of ram very cheaply.

 

The Asus PC-DL on the other hand, is designed from the i875 intel chipset..which was originally for single proc consumer platform...but now handles two xeons. I haven't heard of any problems yet, but it is definitely not an original workstation chipset. It should be faster then E7505 as well as allowing you to use PC2700 (and utilize it).

 

Oh man I just realized this is two single proc workstations...aw f it. Your getting a dual recommendation.

 

2) I'd get 2x 3.0B Xeon's (604 Socket, 533). Their the best bang for the buck right now, about 1/2 the price of the 3.2's.

 

3) Mushkin, Corsair XMS, or Crucial (for brandname), Kingston Hyper-X is supposed to be decent, but thats 4th on the list. PC2100 unbuffered for the E7505 board, PC2700 for the i875 board.

 

4) Wait till after siggraph for the video card.

 

5) Depending on how crazy your work is...you could probably get by with a set of 120 GB WD or Seagate 8 meg Cache drives. You could go bigger, but its still kinda of annoying to partion the newer drives...not plug n play.

 

Monitor...I'd go dual 19 inch lcd's .

[vizwhiz]

Greg

 

Thanks for the info (i am seeing double)

 

my travel budget does not exceed 0 This year

so i will wait till after SSIIGGRAAPPHH for the video card info

 

its not Crucial

 

(The contract work went away yesterday)

They cut out 11 weeks of my future income

 

d*mn i work too fast but That was the 2d work anyways

so now i am free to pursuse the other end of the company

 

the construction engineering people who really want

3d interative 300 ft cranes on the virtual "real" job sites

 

Thanks

 

Randy

 

at least i got to meet you guys last year at Jeff's cga Party

 

----

"its only Life i will get a real one Next Time"