Workflow to make it through the year....

[hockley91]

I'd like to know how many projects a year you all handle to make it through the year?

 

I'm trying to move into this area and leave the architecural practice and do 3D full time for a living. I'm at this halfway point where my clients are growing and the projects are getting more.

 

What's a healthy amount of work for one person a year? That will also help in me determining how much to charge so I can make a living doing this?

 

So far this year, I've finished one major project. I'm working on a fee for my next project and I'm just trying to figure this stuff out....

 

Thanks!

 

Hockley91

[Iain Denby]

I do between 50 and 80! I know this is allot, but I've been building up a client base for quite some time. If you are just starting out and you get 12 in a year I guess you're doing well. It takes time, and don't expect to earn a decent living straight away.

[hockley91]

Thanks!

 

Last year I had 3 big animations and some good still renderings for work. I had over 12 projects, but most of them were low fee's, which I've been adjusting in order to make a living. I still have my day job which is an architect, but I'm hoping to get out of it this year and pursue this full time.

 

So far this year, I am rapidly catching up with how much I made last year, so that's a good sign. I've increased my fees dramatically, I was really cheap last year....

[hockley91]

Does anyone mind posting how much they charge per hour, or how much a typical exterior rendering or interior rendering cost? Everyone talks about it on the board, and I know standard of living is an issue, but there seems to be that no posts show exactly how much they charge? Is it a taboo subject to just blurt it out?

 

A friend of mine in town who also does 3D work, doesn't divulge that info also.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[Brian Cassil]

This was a subject in a loooong thread about 18 months ago I think. It did stir up some controversy. I know that Jeff was going to do a poll on that very subject but he may have abondoned it for the reasons you're speculating.

 

I however have absolutely no problem divulging such info and wish others would so we could generate some sort of basis for what is to be expected in this profession.

 

The freelance work I do (which is only every now and then, I have a full time job with a firm) is based on $75.00 per hour. There is another guy in town who I know charges more than that. I probably shouldn't divulge exactly how much that is since it's really not my buisness.

 

As you stated it depends a LOT on the area you are doing work in. Typical hourly fees in New York are at least double my fee I'm sure.

 

To be fair, if your going to ask others this question you should be ready to say what you are charging as well.

[hockley91]

Fair is fair and I will gladly do so.

 

My hourly rate is $50.00 per hour. I live in San Antonio, Texas.

 

My typical charge for an exterior rendering has been around the $1,400.00 range on average.

 

I've done some animations also, and I've charged more on those. Since the modeling time is the same usually, I've added around $500.00 for rendering time for a 30 second animation. I've also worked with the client to 40 seconds for the same fee.

 

I didn't want to divulge at first, unless other people were willing. I hope there are more posts regarding this issue. I'd really like to see what is appropriate, so we are charging a fair rate that benefits us and the client.

 

Thanks for you input!

[mbr]

That's really cheap, depending on the quality of your work. I bill by the hour for animations, so they go up exponentially. It's never a 'small, added on fee', but something that has to be decided from the beginning. I'd guess that a simple animation would be twice the cost of a single still, at least.

Someplaces have the resources to do it for 'free', but I do not have a large render farm, and I don't charge $200 per hour.

 

Don't sell yourself short.

[Tony]

I don't mind posting this type of information, I think it can help if we try to stabilize our rates in an area. I work primarily out of Houston and the surrounding area.

 

My hourly rates are also $50.00 if I do the work by the hour. This is usually the case.

 

If I have to give a hard number on a project, I will up that to $75.00 when I figure a project to cover a certain amount of changes by the client and to cover my butt incase I miss something.

 

I really don't know what other people charge in my area because it is difficult to get people to be honest about what they charge.

 

I would rather compete on quality of work, and delivery schedules rather than rock bottom pricing. Which is not good for anyone.

 

Perhaps more people in Texas would be willing to share? If my rates are below the average in my area, I sure as hell would like to know that so I can make an adjustment.

 

Tony

[3dp]

working back from next december (holiday time i basically go abroad for 2 weeks then it's christmas

this year has started very well.....3 2 min animations to dvd with 2 more b4 easter and a variety of still image commissions domestic swimming pool to a school for circus

long may it continue

like dibbers it takes time (in my case maybe 5 years of word of mouth) so i can now outsource some work if i can find people who can meet my standards of modelling....too many youngsters basically cannot read drwgs even if they basically trace over them

[Iain Denby]

This hourly rate thing can be missleading, especially to the clients. You could charge the same rate as the next guy, but you complete jobs twice as fast, so the client ends up paying half for yours. Also if you and that next guy only have 2 jobs a year, he earns double your salary!

 

The hourly rate needs to relate with the typical charge for the finished job.

[hockley91]

Alrighty then!

 

We're all finally getting into the 'meat & potatoes' here.

 

I never want to sell myself short. That's why I want to know what everyone else is doing so I/we can compare about what is appropriate for this type of work.

 

I'd like to say that my quality is pretty high. My clients are certainly impressed. Definitely not an amateur.

 

It's good to hear that Tony charges the same for Texas. I know Houston and San Antonio have some wage differences, but I guess we're not too far off.

 

Brian, who lives in Utah, charges $75.00/hr. That's a big jump, but I really don't know how the Standard if Living is up there.

 

So......is it better to do hourly? I know when I'm figuring out this stuff for one large fee, I have to estimate how much time it will take. As we all know, each project is unique and we can't ever cover all the bases. Maybe a per hour fee is the thing to do?

 

Hockley91

[Ernest Burden III]

I try to limit hourly fees to revisions, changes to finished work. Or, if there was a situation where the client needed 'whatever can be done by noon Monday' the hourly is a good plan. In NY the rate will be from $50/hr to $200/hr. I know a few rendererd who charge more, in the $250/hr. range. I've watched these guy work, they deserve it. I think $50 is too low, if you consider how much you will lose to expenses and taxes. I also know that one hour does not equal another in terms of how productive I can be.

 

I usually propose flat fees, and on balance, that works well for everybody. I just picked up a project this morning where I am already regretting the fee I proposed--the spaces are much more ornate than what this firm usually does--they did not tell me, but I did not ask. I'll hope for the best.

[hockley91]

:gebigeek: Wow Ernest!

 

$250.00/hr! That's incredible! Well, I really need to reconsider my fees then. $50.00/hr is pretty cheap compared to that!

 

I did the following rendering for $1,400.00. Does anyone think this is acceptable? Too cheap? Did I sell myself short?

 

 

Thanks for everyone's input! This is great information...

[Ernest Burden III]

Wow Ernest! $250.00/hr! That's incredible! Well, I really need to reconsider my fees then. $50.00/hr is pretty cheap compared to that!

I have never charged that much. Although I will require $200/hr. for revisions I don't want to do. Usually the threat of that rate is enough. But if you insist...

 

I did the following rendering for $1,400.00. Does anyone think this is acceptable? Too cheap? Did I sell myself short?

I think you did sell yourself a little short. The rendering could have been priced at at least US$2000. $2500 would be within reason, too. But that is definately a $2.50 sky.

 

This has been said before--here--and you should go read the David Wright articles, but you really need to work backwards. Start with how much you want to earn. Not NEED to earn, but want to. "What is the number, under which I would feel like an idiot to work?" Figure how much you need to bring in per month to yeild that after expenses and taxes (factoring in some downtime). Now you know how much to charge. If a project is full-time for 1 week it MUST be charged AT LEAST .25x your monthly number. Less than that, on average, and you are just fooling yourself.

[Sawyer]

Honestly I think that if you charged $1,400 for that image at $50 per hour 28 hours seems like a lot for that image which has pretty simple geometry. But really that is not a biggie. If you were able to do 2 of those a week I don't think thats too bad.

[hockley91]

:angenone: Very very interesting....

 

Ernest:

yeah.....that sky is "el cheapo" I'll have to work on that one. It's interesting how, something like that can dramatically change the image.

 

Thanks for your info on pricing. I'll look into my numbers. Thanks.

 

Sawyer:

The geometries were simple, but if you saw the 30"x40" image, there was a lot of detail in that image with the textures. The brickwork was really nice in that image. It took forever to render it out.

 

Bigcahunak:

I can't remember how tall I had those trees....I don't think they are too over scaled. i Did that rendering back in October. I was trying to frame the image and cut off the edges, create a border for the image with the trees. I think it works alright.

[Ken Walton]

Trees look fine to me. Very typical scene here in the Lone Star State... Remember guys - everything's bigger in Texas.

[hockley91]

:ngelaugh: Thanks Ken!

[Tim Nelson]

Wow I think I am really undercharging too. On average I charge about $50 an hour for renderings. But on exterior renderings I am usually pretty quick to do them so I'll only take about a day on them. That means a little more than 400 bucks for a rendering.

 

Part of the reason I'm doing this is because I absolutely need these jobs. I've only been in business for myself since last October, so its been a whole new experiece figuring pricing and expenses etc. Every time somebody asks me for a quote I think to myself "whats the most i can ask for and still be reasonable, AND have them buy off on it?" And thats typically what keeps my numbers so low.

 

Of course thats not where I want to be. I'd like to be at the level of charging about $1000 per exterior. I think $1000 for a days work is pretty good and if I had a couple of those a week I would be doing all right.

 

But as I am getting more business, I've been slowly increasing my proposals. The last one I proposed to do was $600 for a simple office complex. Its been a couple days and haven't heard from them so of course I'm wondering 'did they think it was too high?'.

 

I think its hard to get to the point where you can charge what you want. You have to have a high demand for your work, otherwise the fear will always be there of asking too much and losing the job. Then how will you pay the bills and still have enough left over to take your wife out for a glass of wine every now and then?

 

But I'm fairly optimistic about my work. It can always be better - thats why I hand around here. But I think what I do is rival to some of the best in this area. And with time I will build up the client base and gain confidence enough to raise my rates to where I feel satisfied. Then hopefully by the time the next whipper-snapper comes along offering cheap rates like I used to, my work will be distinguished to the point where clients will pay the extra money just to have a rendering created by Tim Nelson.

[hockley91]

Timmatron,

 

That's exactly how I've been approaching my projects. I'm still trying to build up a client base as well. It is difficult because you only have a handful of clients and you don't want to lose them.

 

I'm really enjoying this topic here. I think it's helping everyone!

[Chad Warner]

I think that out of all the posts that have discussed this issue, this is the only one that people have talked about what they actually charge, instead of dancing around the subject. On that note, I always charge a flat rate unless there are changes after the fact, then it is $75 an hour. I would say $1400 is a little bit cheap for the church rendering, but not too bad. The thing I take into consideration is not how long it actually took me hourwise, but what I feel comfortable charging and what the client is willing to pay. If I charge $2500 for a particular building, and it only takes me 10 hours to complete, then I just made $250 an hour. But if the same building takes 40 hours to complete, the hourly rate drops down to $60. My point is, sometimes I can finish a building in 10 hours or less, sometimes it takes a lot longer. If my fee stays roughly the same either way, it all balances out.

 

Referencing Timmatron's post, I think 500 or 600 is WAY too cheap for a good rendering. From what I have seen, there are some excellent rendering companies in your area, and I can't imagine that you wouldn't be able to compete with them and charge more than $600 in doing it.

 

-Chad

[mtutaj]

For that still here in Illinois, more along the $1,750 to $2,500 range.

 

 

Let me ask you guys this. I have been doing a lot of renderings for 2 clients lately.. 9-11 views per project on 11x17. I have been basing off of square feet. so I've been charging $1.75/sq. ft. for interiors.. I have a potential job coming up that I think I will finally get the fee I deserve. 10 interior shots, 4 exterior shots, and a 1-2 minute walkthru.. It is a highrise remodel project for a 4 star hotel chain. The problem that I have is that the interior designer custom makes all the furnature for all his jobs.. and he never uses the same piece twice.. I have a 4-6 week turnaround time. and the project is to be finalized on DVD.. for the presentation.. I proposed $10,000- $15,000 for it.. depending on what they go with.. It looks really positive.. I have talked to a couple of other firms, where some of my buddies work, here in chicago, and was told that I should have quoted another $10,000 more.. I would have loved to do that, but I know that they are 10+ person firms doing stuff for the Big Arch firms, and I am a 2 person shop, with a couple of part time people. Some charge by the hour for animations, some throw it in. some charge for the animation and throw in the stills. Any thoughts, ideas?

[Tim Nelson]

I think you're right Chad.

 

My goal is to start marketing more to the higher end clients. This would accomplish a couple of things. I would feel comfortable charging more, and I would also get to work on some projects with good designs that would let me expand my rendering horizons. Most of the exteriors I've done so far have been office/industrial and the form is always an after thought to the function.

 

There are a lot of talented architects and designers in this area I would love to work with. I just gotta meet them!

[bigcahunak]

Hockley

Sorry for going off topic here, but you do have a serious scale problem with the trees on the sides of that image.

[Jim Mann]

Originally posted by mtutaj:

I have talked to a couple of other firms, where some of my buddies work, here in chicago, and was told that I should have quoted another $10,000 more.

So you eventually add that extra $10k and somebody else undercuts you and gets the job. It really is a game of educated guessing really. At what price will a client say yes? Is that enough for me to feel the effort will be worthwhile? The one danger is that you drop a price to get that client but then they expect you to drop the price on subsequent jobs.

 

I had an enquiry recently where they really liked the work in the folio but I was quoting £100 per image more than the guy who had done the previous images which they hated. At the end of the day, if the client struggles with the difference between something being good and useable as opposed to something weak and disappointing being worth that bit extra then I can't help them.

 

Then there are the clients that begin renegotiating the fee after you start, but thats another thread for another day....

 

 

JM