Exterior Rules of Thumb?

[Dave Buckley]

Do you guys tend to stick to any particular rules of thumb for exterior shots?

 

for example?

 

camera height?

 

lens?

 

camera distance from building in relation to height?

 

camera target placement?

 

i'm still not getting the hang of good camera placement on exterior shots and it's driving me nuts.

 

it takes me ages to find what i think is a decent shot

[3DMK]

The answers would be as varied as the projects we work on....and the clients we work with.

[Dave Buckley]

oh i no but what i'm getting at is things like,

 

tower blocks - camera far away with telephoto lens

 

single story buildings - camera so far away, 24mm - 35mm lens

 

camera at eye height for all situations unless otherwise stated by client? (i.e. they request an aerial shot)

 

do you place the target centralised on the building and then move the camera to suit, do you move both at same time, do position camera then move target to suit?

 

does the building form determine aspect ratio and camera placement?

 

just finding getting camera placement/aspect ratio/lens settings right in exteriors really difficult, when i think i'm right with one, i'll change the other and then it looks wrong again.

 

what do you specify first?

 

aspect ratio?

 

lens?

 

camera placement?

 

 

or even better still do you always go square/oversized keep horizon in the middle and then crop to suit in post?

[Tommy L]

My clients always decide. I put some in then let them tweak the crap out of them till there's nothing left of my work, just a boring shot a twelve year old would have taken on a cell phone.

 

But then Ill go in after and do some shots of my own if its a nice project. But as said above, those shots are job dependent.

[Dave Buckley]

cool thanks for info

 

i'm only really having difficulty when trying to get the whole building in shot

 

example, the image attached, if i put cam at eye level 1.55m'ish and target the same, i get my horizon on on the correct third line by using the skew modifier. but then the top of the building seems too low, so when i manage to get the top of the building looking right with the horizon by moving the camera, i then find that it feels to close, as though i'm in a never ending circle

 

so i try to open the sky and ground up a bit more by adding height to the aspect ratio which leads to the inevitable - the horizon line disappears from it's third line, and i'm back to square one, but now because of the new aspect ratio i'm finding it difficult to get the whole building back in shot and maintain a good composition.

 

thats my reason for asking really.

 

i feel the problem is down to my lack of photography knowledge (lens/aspect ratios/fov) etc

[Dave Buckley]

helps if i attach the image

[padre.ayuso]

Hey Dave,

I'd suggest putting stuff around it, depending on what it is and complementing to the building. Otherwise, yeah, it does look bare and boring, doesn't it? Perhaps you have too much of the floor too, so that's no good. Then you can probably crop the sides in PS. Now I imagine this is a beach house, so sand around it would be a good idea, people in roller skates listening to their Pods, or whatever. Then a couple of seagulls and that'd be nice. But say this is a shot early in a summer morning, when the midst from the ocean is still settling back, then you can do that too... Not sure what your project is for, but your shot will definitely create a concept and depending on how you set your camera and what you put around, that's the idea you will be communicating. Go ahead, and try few different camera angles, and put yourself in the shoes of your customer, and ask yourself what you think of that rendering and whether it communicates what it needs to communicate, and I think you will nail down what you are trying to achieve.

[3DMK]

Wow...how do you sleep at night???? Worrying about everything so much.....when as mentioned by Tommy the client is most likely going to change everything.[and all that grey hair will be for nothing]

 

What's more important than any technical aspect is simply....does it look right.....but then again there is no right or wrong with art so really anything goes.

 

Endless worrying also takes away every ounce of artist in you.....the less you worry & just do what you think...the better off you will be.

 

Hope this helps

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

I don't mind the angle and lens mm right now, though I would definitely only go down with the lens mm from this point. Any higher, and it will start to fell voyeuristic. Like you are looking through a high powered telescope to spy on someone.

 

The composition of this image makes it all about what is happening inside of those 3 front windows. How those windows are portrayed is what will make or break this image for me. The really need to be inviting. Your attention is already drawn to them, so they need to deliver.

 

It is nicely balanced between what is happening inside, and what is happening outside of this building. It is usually easy to pull off the exterior of a building, but difficult to pull off the trick of connecting with both the interior and exterior of the building at the same time.

[Dave Buckley]

Hey Dave,

I'd suggest putting stuff around it, depending on what it is and complementing to the building. Otherwise, yeah, it does look bare and boring, doesn't it? Perhaps you have too much of the floor too, so that's no good. Then you can probably crop the sides in PS. Now I imagine this is a beach house, so sand around it would be a good idea, people in roller skates listening to their Pods, or whatever. Then a couple of seagulls and that'd be nice. But say this is a shot early in a summer morning, when the midst from the ocean is still settling back, then you can do that too... Not sure what your project is for, but your shot will definitely create a concept and depending on how you set your camera and what you put around, that's the idea you will be communicating. Go ahead, and try few different camera angles, and put yourself in the shoes of your customer, and ask yourself what you think of that rendering and whether it communicates what it needs to communicate, and I think you will nail down what you are trying to achieve.

 

for sure, i need to put stuff around it, i'm purely trying to decide camera placement and aspect at the min. i'm confident with entourage and environment etc (place the right sort of people, place them in thought out positions to engage viewer etc etc)

 

however, you say about the floor, how do you get around that without dropping the horixon too much or losing some of the sky?

 

regards to the beach house, it's actually not, it's a competition entry from 2007 for the Solar Decathlon, a number of teams submit entries for the most efficient house etc. i just really liked this one and decided to recreate it for personal practice.

 

the environment is actually kind of dry/dusty rather than sandy/beachy. it's more an exhibition piece

 

i just really liked this one, check the picture for the environment, that's the real thing, again i'm just trying to get some nic eexterior shots, maybe trying to show the whole building is my problem? i'm experimenting with cameras today anyhow

[Dave Buckley]

and again i forgot the image

[Dave Buckley]

Wow...how do you sleep at night???? Worrying about everything so much.....when as mentioned by Tommy the client is most likely going to change everything.[and all that grey hair will be for nothing]

 

What's more important than any technical aspect is simply....does it look right.....but then again there is no right or wrong with art so really anything goes.

 

Endless worrying also takes away every ounce of artist in you.....the less you worry & just do what you think...the better off you will be.

 

Hope this helps

 

haha it does help, and your not the first person to question how much i think about things

[Dave Buckley]

I don't mind the angle and lens mm right now, though I would definitely only go down with the lens mm from this point. Any higher, and it will start to fell voyeuristic. Like you are looking through a high powered telescope to spy on someone.

 

The composition of this image makes it all about what is happening inside of those 3 front windows. How those windows are portrayed is what will make or break this image for me. The really need to be inviting. Your attention is already drawn to them, so they need to deliver.

 

It is nicely balanced between what is happening inside, and what is happening outside of this building. It is usually easy to pull off the exterior of a building, but difficult to pull off the trick of connecting with both the interior and exterior of the building at the same time.

 

cool, cheers travis

 

thats what i was looking for. i just wanted a generic exterior shot just to set the building in it's environment, now i can concentrate on the detail of the composition.

 

it's the generic exterior i have difficulty with really, where do i place the building and why? am i meant to focus on something if its just a generic 'whole building' shot? i just thought it was nice framing of the building really and giving it enough room to breath in the frame

[neil poppleton]

Dont foget the golden rule, that rules are there to be broken, experiment, until your happy.

[Dave Buckley]

The composition of this image makes it all about what is happening inside of those 3 front windows. How those windows are portrayed is what will make or break this image for me. The really need to be inviting. Your attention is already drawn to them, so they need to deliver.

 

how do you decide what is the viewers attention should be drawn to in the image if there is no client involved and it's personal work?

 

client would normally say i want to showcase feature X so your comp is based around that.

 

but when you have total freedom then . . .

 

i didn't really set out to draw you into the windows, i just wanted you to be able to see the building as a whole and it's surroundings.

 

i guess its a good thing after all as the exterior is what makes the interior more impressive - so i need to try and guide the viewer into the building/make them feel as though they want to go and have a look inside in more detail?

[mattclinch]

how do you decide what is the viewers attention should be drawn to in the image if there is no client involved and it's personal work?

 

well what looks appealing to your eye? where would naturally look?

 

composition has rules of thumb - things which generally work, rule of thirds, golden ratio etc, but ultimately what works for one image might not work for another. its an art form in itself, so you got to free yourself up and play with it, shift it around till you find something that feels like it works.

 

there is no x + y = z forumula for it. you just got to stop fretting and feel it.

[Dave Buckley]

cool cheers for inputs guys, i'm just getting on with now as you've all told me too

Edited June 25, 2010 by Dave Buckley

[Tommy L]

When there is little in the scene to dictate composition (you basically have a box) its sometimes good to introduce elements which enable some logic to the arrangement of the image. Im going to be awful and use my own image as an example here:

Image

The line in the sky and the road/site lines are supposed to add dynamism to quite a static building, which lend the wide lens and low view a little credibility.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

how do you decide what is the viewers attention should be drawn to in the image if there is no client involved and it's personal work?

 

With any project I like to sit back and have a glass of wine at some point and stare at the image until I learn what I feel I was missing before. I don't know if this is the best solution, but it helps to step away and look at it while you are not intensely working on it.

[Dave Buckley]

how strange, that image is in my collection of 'good exteriors' to use as guidelines.

 

yeh i'm strating to populate the landscape now, vegetation

 

are those trees 2d?

[Tommy L]

Dave, the building, road, path and gravel are 3d. The rest is made up of about 8 photos.

Travis,

Exactly the advice my architecture tutor at university, he said my designs were sometimes too formal. Except his words were "...sit back and relax, have a glass of wine, a beer, or whatever it is that relaxes you.." I took that to mean smoke a doobie and get creative. You know what, I always designed the inital phases of my buildings with a good 'glass of wine' in me after that and my grades went to the top of the class.

[Tommy L]

Oh, I just thought of a rule!

Always put the 'open face' of the building with more room to the edge of the image. Its more relaxed. Same in film and photography. If the persons face is looking at the edge of the image facing out it introduces a feeling of unease, like the person has an uncertain immediate future. Its used in propaganda shots alot.

[Dave Buckley]

not really reviving the thread but my next issue kind of fits.

 

here's my problem.

 

in the attached image, i want more sky, but if i give myself more sky then my horizon goes further away from the first third line.

 

these were the kind of issue i wanted to address originally. I have this issue with every shot i do so i'm thinking it's how i'm using the cameras, or does everyone else have this problem?

 

if not then how do i get round it?

 

it could be that it's not something i need to worry about in 3ds.

 

essentially i want the frame to be as is in the screen shot, but i want more sky without my horizon disappearing to the bottom of the screen. how would you guys go about achieving that?

 

would you lower the camera/raise the target/use a different lens/dolly in/make the frame taller etc etc etc

[Dave Buckley]

and some more screen grabs to show current cam position and settings

[mattclinch]

you're gonna have to go with a wider lens, or pull your camera back.