Chasing a dying industry?

[Bwana Kahawa]

Feels like we've had this discussion before but I'll see what opinions are around anyway!

 

Currently working as an in-house visualiser at an architectural practice - been there seven and half years now. I used to mainly do visuals (FormZ from DWGs), along with the company website, graphics stuff, photography, etc. We've recently made a push towards ArchiCAD, making use of the 3D model generated by the architects. Although I've spent a bit of time using these models and a Maxwell plugin to get results, the workload for me is slowly reducing. The website / photography is still needed, but not enough to keep me fully occupied.

 

Although I'm pretty confident they can find me other work to do (perhaps beginning to do some of the drawings myself), I'm beginning to question what I should be doing.

 

So question is, if I consider moving on, what do I go into? Do I go after similar in-house jobs, or am I just delaying the inevitable day when I have to look at a new career type, if all architecture firms are set to follow? I based my degree and training around working in the games industry, so that's always an option, but it'd mean commuting to Cambridge or London (or moving house).

 

Are all architecture firms with an in-house visualiser set to eventually lose them as BIM and 3D CAD remove the need? Or will there always be non-BIM CAD packages and therefore need of someone to generate and render the 3D models?

 

I possibly already know the answer, maybe I'm just avoiding asking it (and getting this off my chest at the same time)...

[AJLynn]

Clearly you need a plan to avoid becoming obsolete. Maybe you can become so good at graphics work that is currently needed and will keep being needed (only cockroaches, taxes and Photoshop work will survive nuclear apocalypse), learn the crap out of the new system and become much better at rendering from BIM models than others in your firm (because modeling is not the hard part anyway) or make that jump back into games.

 

Personally I've had enough of the whole thing and I'm going to get out of architecture.

[cmiller3030]

Wow.

 

I thought it was just me. But I have been working at an architectural firm for just 3 years, here we use Revit and I use Max 11. when I started I was doing 85% 3d work and just 15% graphic design work but over the past 3 years it has changed to 40% 3d work, 50% graphic design work and 10% web site stuff.

 

the 3d work is still on the decline.

Edited June 28, 2010 by cmiller3030

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Pimp, Illustrate, and tell the story of the BIM model. That is where the "artistic freedom" comes in. If the concept is simply to provide a photo-real representation of the space to be built, then yes, you will become obsolete.

[Bwana Kahawa]

Love the idea of using the BIM model - that's what I've been doing since last summer, really. Only problem is now that there's not enough fee in the project to justify the swanky images - simple scanlines produced by the architects seem to be keeping the clients happy enough.

 

I'm just concerned that if I head to another architect firm, the same thing'll happen a few years further down line as architect start producing the imagery themselves. Would I just be delaying the inevitable career change by moving to another, or will there be some architecture firms that always need an in-house guy?!

[mattclinch]

Wow, I have to say i'm surprised at this. Do you think the lack of work they have for you is directly related to a lack of work coming in to the studio as a whole? ie. people aren't building as much as they used to?

Personally since going freelance from January I've had no shortage of work. What we do is still an invaluable service and design tool, and provided you can offer value for money and good service I would never even consider labelling our industry as 'dying'.

[Jonathan Sanchez]

I dont think this is a dying industry, rather, it's a rapidly evolving industry. Without a doubt, one of the biggest factors affecting our industry is price. People are just not willing to pay top price for an image nowadays, especially when they can get a similar quality image much cheaper from other Asian or Middle-Eastern countries. So the only way we can compete is by providing extraordinary service at ever lower prices (queue the haters for me saying this, but I'm convinced this is the case). Its why I think our industry will evolve towards shrinking businesses, more freelance type artist will be used, since they can provide more affordable images due to their lower overhead, while the bigger businesses handle the top end work (commercial animations and so forth).

 

What I've been doing about the BIM stuff, is that I've offered architects more affordable prices to take the BIM models, texture it and light it, and it's actually worked. Again though, what I've noticed they are most interested in is price. An unfortunate case, but we must be realistic. Supply and Demand; way too many artist, too little demand, however it must balance out over time, which is why I say our industry is evolving, not dying.

Edited June 29, 2010 by sancheuz

[Devin Johnston]

Reducing your price to try to compete with someone in China is a loosing proposition, they will always be able to do the work cheaper than you can so I don't believe that's a good idea. I do agree that the industry is changing and our jobs will change with it, I think the future of visualization will be more interactive experiences coupled with augmented reality technologies.

 

My office has been using ArchiCAD for over 15 years, a few years ago they came out with a render engine that I thought would shut me down as the in house renderer. It turns out that even though it's relatively easy to get low to moderate quality images out of it most of the designers are too busy to really mess with it. There are also very large quality differences in what those engines can produce given equal times compared to what I can do with Max and Vray. They also can't do any animation work to speak of and in the last few years I've noticed that the number of animations I do annually has gone up dramatically. I think what we're seeing is that still renderings are becoming common place and relatively cheap to produce but animations are still the exclusive domain of the architectural illustrator and can't be automated as stills can. That still gives you an invaluable place from which you can make up any revenue you may not be getting with still images, you just need to sell your clients or employers on the benifits these animations can provide.

[Jonathan Sanchez]

I agree with you Devin in that it will always be a loosing proposition to compete with China or other countries in prices. However, I've found lately that my clients are willing to pay some more to work with me than to outsource to other countries. That is the thing though, they are willing to pay a little more, not a whole lot more. You know If a client tells me they can get the image done in China for $500, and I tell them oh I'll do it for $1,500, there's very little chance that the client will accept my proposal. Although I agree with you that there is much potential in animations and other stuff we still do, I also believe we must find ways to become more efficient, especially us small time freelancers.

[Devin Johnston]

The only real answer to this problem and I've said it before is tariffs, this would level the playing field and encourage economic growth in our country as outsourcing no longer has any economic benifit.

[Jonathan Sanchez]

I'm with you there Devin!

 

Oh and Autodesk should try to make hatches work right in AutoCAD! lol

[Tommy L]

The only real answer to this problem and I've said it before is tariffs, this would level the playing field and encourage economic growth in our country as outsourcing no longer has any economic benifit.

 

Maxer: Never going to happen. Impossible to implement, even more difficult to enforce, international litigation following breaches will not be viable. This is not an answer, mainly because there is no problem.

The problem with running a business that is essentially online programming is that you have competition from abroad. Deal with it, because it is not going away.

 

"You know If a client tells me they can get the image done in China for $500, and I tell them oh I'll do it for $1,500, there's very little chance that the client will accept my proposal."

 

Sancheuz: Then they are not a client you want. The practical benefit of using a decent local guy (on a project who's budget is in the millions) far outweighs $1000 savings in going to China. Also, penny-pinching clients ride you as far as they can. Forget it, find better clients.

(Maxer says it best: Reducing your price to try to compete with someone in China is a loosing proposition, they will always be able to do the work cheaper than you can so I don't believe that's a good idea.)

 

"I dont think this is a dying industry, rather, it's a rapidly evolving industry."

This is true. But the point should be that it is the vendor who cannot stand still. If your clients are going to China...if ALL the clients go to China...then find a new market for your skills. Look around you, every billboard, tv channel, game, website....all media channels are stuffed full of 3d content. Who do you thunk is making it all? Freelancers and studios using the software and skills we use to represent buildings, just 3d something else.

[Tommy L]

 

Personally I've had enough of the whole thing and I'm going to get out of architecture.

 

For real?

[mattclinch]

You know If a client tells me they can get the image done in China for $500, and I tell them oh I'll do it for $1,500, there's very little chance that the client will accept my proposal.

 

respond "ok, I can appreciate that saving $1000 is important to you. best of luck with the project - if you have any problems with *company x* or are unhappy with the quality of the images then please don't hesitate to give me a call"

 

6 times out of 10 you'll get a call within a few weeks in my experience.

[Jonathan Sanchez]

Well said Tommy. You are right in everything. The thing is that I dont work on multi-million dollar projects... someone who is starting out recently like me is usually doing smaller residential or small commercial jobs, and they are definitely penny-pinchers. But what can I do, I have to pay my bills so I get whatever I can get for now until I make a better name for myself and could expand to bigger better paying jobs.

 

I definitely think you are right about doing other stuff too! The digital arts sector is growing really fast thanks to all the media outlets available. I have been giving that some thought lately and have been trying to think of ways to expand to other "3d" sectors. Anyways, sorry for hijacking the thread.

[Jonathan Sanchez]

respond "ok, I can appreciate that saving $1000 is important to you. best of luck with the project - if you have any problems with *company x* or are unhappy with the quality of the images then please don't hesitate to give me a call"

 

6 times out of 10 you'll get a call within a few weeks in my experience.

 

I've applied this technique.. at least in my experience... 9 times out of 10 i dont get the job. Bottom line is people are looking to bargain. It's real hard to find the "good" clients nowadays.

 

Not to be too pessimistic though, I have had an upsurge in work these past couple of months, and I believe we can all learn some valuable experience in these harder times so that when better times come, we'll be stronger, better, and more efficient.

Edited June 29, 2010 by sancheuz

[Derek Entesano]

I've been doing arch vis in an Architecture firm for going on 9 years and I am getting busier. I have 3 other arch vis guys and a graphic designer. There is always the steady image requirements for council applications, we have been pushing doing as much of the marketing material as possible in house, and with the difficulties in getting architectural jobs we have been doing a helluva lot of hard and fast punt jobs with a hero shot or too, these can actually be quite fun.

 

We have been Archicad based for 10 years. When a 'good' rendering engine was incorporated into Archicad a while back a few thought they would be able to do what the pres. unit guys can do. I think it was soon realised its not just applying materials and hitting render. I also took it as a motivator to further distiguish our quality and output from the render button crowd. As mentioned above, get artistic and use different styles. For me it is great as more of our office can model well (I get to help steer them for my benefit;) materials breakup etc.), this has freed me to concentrate on the image.

As mentioned above as well, expand your services with VR, animations, interactive media etc. It all helps! And yes, the reality is that financial returns just arent as good as they were...

[Bwana Kahawa]

When a 'good' rendering engine was incorporated into Archicad a while back a few thought they would be able to do what the pres. unit guys can do. I think it was soon realised its not just applying materials and hitting render. I also took it as a motivator to further distiguish our quality and output from the render button crowd. As mentioned above, get artistic and use different styles.

 

The problem is, for our current market, the output from the architects is 'good enough'. It's not that they can't see a quality difference, as they blatantly can - they come to me whenever they need a 'top end' image. Thing is, fees don't allow for any top end images when they can get output straight from the architects as part of their working process. It's all about the money. The office certainly isn't short of work to do, but this way of working seems to be a result of 'efficiencies' discovered during the leaner times.

 

So do I hang on, hoping it'll go back the other way, and perhaps take a bit of a career change towards the drawing side of things in the meantime? Or maybe just try my luck freelance instead, as it seems there's no major shortage of work out there?

[Tommy L]

The problem is, for our current market, the output from the architects is 'good enough'. It's not that they can't see a quality difference, as they blatantly can - they come to me whenever they need a 'top end' image. Thing is, fees don't allow for any top end images when they can get output straight from the architects as part of their working process. It's all about the money. The office certainly isn't short of work to do, but this way of working seems to be a result of 'efficiencies' discovered during the leaner times.

 

So do I hang on, hoping it'll go back the other way, and perhaps take a bit of a career change towards the drawing side of things in the meantime? Or maybe just try my luck freelance instead, as it seems there's no major shortage of work out there?

 

Are you sure you are gauging your current experience by the market? Or maybe by your company's policies and reaction to the market?

And yes, there is a shortage of work out there. I wouldnt fancy entering the market right now, not for a coupla years.

Its a tough desicion to make. But right now you are employed. Keep your options open and your eye out for opportunities, but unless you are sure you want a change maybe you should not rock the boat until the desicion is made for you.

[Devin Johnston]

Tom's right this economy is horrible and from what I've read is about to get worse, if you've got a job I'd think twice before leaving it unless you've got a sure thing lined up.

[AJLynn]

For real?

 

Yeah. Honestly I've been unhappy with the business for a while and it's not just the economy. Being told by older men who are worse designers than me and terrible at management that drawing bathroom elevations and picking floor tiles is a fantastic "design opportunity", making a third as much as I could and aspiring to be like same older men (who are making half as much as they could) is not my idea of a good time. What would you do? I'm going to law school and in a few years when I'm making three times what I used to (M.Arch and JD is a very powerful combination and very few people have it) I'll buy a bigger house, build a darkroom and have a better creative outlet than architecture provides.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

I'm going to law school and in a few years when I'm making three times what I used to (M.Arch and JD is a very powerful combination and very few people have it).

 

Very cool. Does this mean you will find a niche that deals with lawsuits surrounding architecture?

[anejo]

Being told by older men who are worse designers than me and terrible at management that drawing bathroom elevations and picking floor tiles is a fantastic "design opportunity",

 

Yea, I had someone tell me that and 2 minutes later my motivation level just drop to its lowest level ever.

[AJLynn]

Very cool. Does this mean you will find a niche that deals with lawsuits surrounding architecture?

 

I'll try not to sue you

[Devin Johnston]

That's about the same thing as being told that I should be able to work on two rendering projects at the same time because I have two computers and that I should be able to get twice the work done in the same amount of time. I've been told that twice this week.