building my own PC - lots of questions

[Derek Forreal]

hi All,

 

i'm a DIY PC virgin. i've decided that i'll be building my own this time round but before i start i want to make sure i'll be able to see it through.

 

first off, i've read through the July Workstation Recommendations. the first question i need to ask is whether the list of system components is complete? to be clear, will i need anything else that isn't on the list to be able to have a fully working workstation?

 

next, the CPU. is the 980x worth the premium? currently i'd have to shell out just over £800 for it. i can get an i7 930, 860 or i5 670 for roughly £220 - that's a big difference.

 

also, the speed of these alternatives is pretty much the same so why is the i5 670 so much slower than the 930 or 860 when rendering?

 

i was thinking i could go for the i7 860 for example and then overclock to get the most out of it and then upgrade the processor when the cheaper 6/8 cores start appearing. or should i just go for the 980 and enjoy the faster renderings? how far can the 980 be overclocked? and does anyone know how far off the horizon the next best thing is?

 

i doubt i'll be needing GPU rendering any time soon. both Thea and Maxwell have announced interactive renderers but they are both CPU based (as is modo) so the GTX470 should be more than enough.

i'll be using the workstation primarily for technical drawings (Archicad) modelling (modo) and rendering (Thea and Maxwell). stills only, though i might start playing with animation at some point.

 

what do i need to look out for so i can upgrade efficiently when the time comes?

 

so far, this is what i've come up with:

 

CPU - i7 980/930/860 (i'd like to overclock so should i stick with the suggested Asus P6T MB?)

 

CPU cooler - ThermoLab Baram-2010 (apparently a great 980 cooler)

 

GPU - Inno3D GTX 470 Hawk (very quiet)

 

Motherboard - ASUS P6T SE iX58 Socket 1366 (Overclocking and upgradeability?)

 

RAM - DDR3-1600 12GB

 

Case - Cooler Master CM 690 II Case (i like the look of it and it is very quiet)

 

Power supply - OCZ GameXStream 850W PSU (again, quiet plus i found a good deal - 850W should be plenty no?

 

will also need a HDD and SSD and am looking into these.

 

sorry for the long post but i'd like to make sure i get this right first time. i'm all ears for any suggestions you guys have and for opinions on my list so far.

 

 

[ruskie77]

Just out of interest, where are you sourcing your parts from? I'd be interested to see what price your system outline comes in at, as we might me able to "steal" a bit from one area and add it to another...

[AJLynn]

I thought the P6T SE instead of the regular P6T was going to be a problem, but looking at the pages on them the only substantial difference I see is the P6T supports SLI and Crossfire but the SE only supports Crossfire. This is not a big deal for us. The more expensive P6T Deluxe and P6T WS boards have some higher quality components and a better power supply to the CPU so if you want to OC a 980X you might consider one of those instead. For overclocking you could consider even faster RAM - usually the RAM is overclocked along with the CPU and you don't want to run out of headroom.

 

The 980X is more expensive but it is the fastest thing you can get and it does OC well - I know people running it at 4GHz without issues, though OC'ing isn't really covered on the 3DATS site because it's not something you'd do in most office environments. If you want to save your money, the i7-875k and the AMD 1090T are both great OC'ers but of course the 980X outperforms them. Cost/benefit is your call. The 850W power supply is a good idea as is the upgraded cooler. I don't know that case, but I always say buy a better case than you think you need for a high end system - the case design will determine how easily you can assemble the PC and how good the access is for later maintenance, as well as contribute to cooling.

 

I'd say, on the video card, if you're not using CUDA, the 470 is probably overkill. I'm not a big fan of these high end Geforce cards for these uses. They're expensive and they use a lot of power, and if you use CUDA or game they're great but for 3D app viewport acceleration it's not the best allocation of resources. I'd advise either spending less on a GTX 460 or FirePro v4800 (a FireGL'ed Radeon 5670) or spending more on a FirePro v5800 (a FireGL'ed Radeon 5770).

[Derek Forreal]

thanks for the continued help Andrew. still some questions though

 

For overclocking you could consider even faster RAM - usually the RAM is overclocked along with the CPU and you don't want to run out of headroom

 

i've read that it's possible to OC to 4.4ghz with air cooling. let's say that i stop at a 'conservative' 4ghz, do i need the faster RAM? any recommendations as to which one?

 

The 980X is more expensive but it is the fastest thing you can get and it does OC well

 

agreed. this is the one i'm going for.

 

I don't know that case

 

after looking into this a bit more, i decided on the Antec 182 as i like the design and it's rated as well built, cool and very quiet.

 

I'd advise either spending less on a GTX 460 or FirePro v4800 (a FireGL'ed Radeon 5670) or spending more on a FirePro v5800 (a FireGL'ed Radeon 5770).

 

i've never had a 'Pro' card and have always been put off by the many claims (by users) that gamer cards are just as good, but I no longer play games and so have decided to go for a Firepro. is the V7800 worth the extra over the V5800?

 

Just out of interest, where are you sourcing your parts from? I'd be interested to see what price your system outline comes in at, as we might me able to "steal" a bit from one area and add it to another...

 

lots of reading and then i'll be shopping around for the best prices. so far, i think i'll be coming in at around £2,200 if i go for the Firepro V5800. £200 more if i go for the V7800.

 

i posted a few days ago regarding a new monitor and ended up getting the ZR24W. i'm really happy with it so far and can't wait to upgrade my system too. never realised how difficult choosing components would be though...

[AJLynn]

Because of the unlocked multiplier on the 980X chip you don't need faster RAM. On a CPU that's not unlocked, there's the RAM speed and a multiplier that's hard-wired and the CPU speed is the RAM speed times the multiplier. The multiplier can't change, so you change the CPU speed by changing the RAM speed, so your RAM might limit your CPU if the RAM becomes unstable before the CPU does. With the unlocked multiplier, you get to change both variables - the RAM speed and the multiplier - so you don't have to OC the RAM in order to OC the CPU. But if you do choose to OC both, the extra memory speed does contribute to a performance boost. Many OC'ers choose to max out both the CPU and the RAM, so they might actually take advantage of the unlocked CPU by decreasing the multiplier in order to get RAM speed beyond what the CPU could otherwise handle.

 

So that's up to you, it's just one more area where you can buy more power. Price/performance is the buyer's call.

 

WRT the FirePro cards, understand that these are both extremely powerful cards. I see the primary advantage of the 7800 being in the improved OpenCL capabilities that come from more threads (1440 vs. 800) and more memory (1GB vs. 2GB). If you do see GPU computing in your close-to-mid-term future, go with the 7800 - but it's not like the 5800 can't hold its own. Do you want a heck of a lot of power or a freakin' truckload of power?

[Derek Forreal]

that clears just about everything up, although i'll have to find out a lot more about overclocking. i've also decided on the V5800 - a 'heck of a lot of power' is more than enough for now i think, and i can always add a second card if i do need GPU rendering in future (it works best with a 2nd card anyway doesn't it?).

 

one last question if i may. i've just seen an OEM version of the 980x at £660 - that's significantly less than retail price (about £120 less, roughly $180). it is sold as:

 

Brand new – Sealed – OEM CPU

OEM CPU's do not come with a heatsink/fan

 

as i'm going to change the cooling, i thought this might be a good option but what's the deal with OEM processors?

 

as far as i can tell the source is legit.

[AJLynn]

If it's from a good source, you can buy OEM, you just need a heatsink. I think Intel OEM parts come with less warranty - look into that. Not that I've ever known anybody who submitted a warranty claim on an Intel CPU.