Need advice on large job in short time frame

[danb4026]

I need to price out a job consisting of 15 images to be completed by September 10th. The problem is that it is just me, with no help or assistants.

 

The job is basically creating the images to build a "brand" for a developer going after the 21-35 year old demographic. There could be 3 different "brands", each depending on the location of the particular building. The architect is coming up with the designs and branding concepts and I am to create the images showing a variety of spaces within the development (lobby, fitness, entries etc).

 

There are no Cad files, just some sketches and design "concepts". I will be working closely with the design architect on an ongoing basis as the images and ideas develop.

 

Like I said, it is only me. I feel I have to price this out on a time basis rather than a per image basis (because of the lack of available info). I would like to find help with this project but have no idea how.

 

Assuming it is just me, working non-stop for a month, should I just use my daily rate and work it out that way? If I cannot complete all 15 images in the alotted time, could the client come back and want to pay me less? These are my concerns. When putting this proposal together, I need to hedge myself.

 

Any advice?

[alias_marks]

Recently worked on a project very similar to this. We basically started out communicating it was going to be in the range of $xxx for this type of concept rendering and $xxx for this type of more refined polished rendering, but then charged on an hourly rate throughout the longevity of the project, and agreeing to communicate if we were going over the original per image quote... Always a balancing act that is best served by open communication

 

On thing I found helpful was to keep a tally of the jpg, psd, or whatever deliverables and put them alongside the final hourly invoice to help the client see more than just a big hourly chunk of time at the end and not really know what went where.

 

Best of luck, and congrats on getting the work

[danb4026]

Thanks Michael. So basically you gave them general pricing for complete concept vs. polished images, but billed hourly throughout the project for yet to be completed imagery?

 

The thing is, the sought after images are so vague (no materials, no cad files, etc.) that I have no idea how to even begin budgeting. All I know is how many they want, and how much time I have to do them. I am sure some images will have to be more polished than others, but don't know which, and probably won;t know until deep into the project.

[alias_marks]

Thanks Michael. So basically you gave them general pricing for complete concept vs. polished images, but billed hourly throughout the project for yet to be completed imagery?

 

Yep, that's the gist. However we did deliver progress images, etc. throughout the project... Kind of on a weekly basis.

 

The thing is, the sought after images are so vague (no materials, no cad files, etc.) that I have no idea how to even begin budgeting. All I know is how many they want, and how much time I have to do them. I am sure some images will have to be more polished than others, but don't know which, and probably won;t know until deep into the project.

 

Yea, Kind of a tricky situation. Sounds exactly like the job I just finished up.. One suggestion is to break the job out into a modeling hourly rate, and then a (rendering/finishing hourly rate). We also had kind of 3 different types of images... 1. Sketchy concept (*like raw sketchup renders), 2. then Tofu (*simple lighting and textures), then 3. Final polished renders and matched to the level of information we had to work with..

 

Might be too complex and get a little messy... My best advice is to just try to feel out the client to see what their comfortable with, open communication, and be flexible with them. Sounds like partly it may be your job to help educate them on what they want... they may not know...

[Jonathan Sanchez]

Sounds like partly it may be your job to help educate them on what they want... they may not know...

 

Indeed, communicate and educate the client. I've had so many clients think that renderings are as simple as pressing one button (even though they kind of are :-), but no really). Be honest with yourself, if you think you can handle this job, take it. But if you feel it is way too much stress, for way to little cash, reject it. I've had a bunch of people come up to me with impossible deadlines and for pennies on the dollar, these kinda jobs are not worth it.

[danb4026]

What is a good way to find help if I get bogged down and need an extra set of hands? I have polled the local Universities, but because it is summer, I have had no luck.

[ihabkal]

Indeed, communicate and educate the client.

 

some clients flat out refuse to get an education, they say theyt already know everything.

[alias_marks]

What is a good way to find help if I get bogged down and need an extra set of hands? I have polled the local Universities, but because it is summer, I have had no luck.

 

Best way is to tap into the great network your already a part of - I'm sure just by virtue of of making this post, you'll get some pm's offering to help. Ask around, see who's available and if they know anyone...

 

Other than that, there's always craigslist, but I've heard it usually quite a task to filter through everything to find the quality...

 

Might take up an add on the cgarchitect jobs forum too...

[TheAllusionisst]

The thing to really watch out for is that it soudns like your services are going to end up being used as a design tool and that means lots of changes. Hence, either hourly or additional services at hourly once a certain mileston is reached is probably in order and then there is the whole time constraint as revising everything will eat up all your time, so perhaps you do all images and then start on the revisions so that you meet the 15 image requirement even if they aren't all revised by the final deadline, that isn't your fault if they keep changing the design? Tough one!

[Ernest Burden III]

I'd go with an hourly basis. You could give a number up front but base it on how many hours you expect to put in to get there, and apply a rate worth the effort. But as others have said, things will be fluid and you need to have a fluid working process in place and provide lots and lots of progress images. that way, needed changes will be picked up quickly, and, as also said, the client will know how much effort is going into the project.

 

As for help, just ask. First figure what help you will need. Will you need modeling, or lighting, or Photoshop work towards the end? Would you want an assistant or a project partner? When I have a too-big-for the-time project, I will split it with a colleague.

[alias_marks]

The thing is, the sought after images are so vague (no materials, no cad files, etc.)

 

I was reading a vyonyx interview and I couldn't help but share this quote that I thought was a perfect way to look at your lack of information as an opportunity as opposed to an obstacle.

 

Q: "What projects are your favourite and why? Can you tell us what was the client's brief and walk us through the process from start to finish?"

 

Vyonyx: "Projects most valuable to us are those where we are given the freedom to improvise. Improvising, basically, is what means to be truly artistic. Projects where we are given a very loose brief and even a looser 3D model are our element! Less information equals more freedom to us. Clients feel somehow guilty for providing us with so little information, and we love to abuse this situation doing the stuff our ways."

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it comes across that you are looking at the lack of information provided as a huge problem, however I thought vyonyx had a particularly good way to look at it.

 

Here's the article if anyone wants to take a look - http://www.cgrecord.net/2010/08/interview-with-vyonyx.html

[DanGrover]

I was reading a vyonyx interview and I couldn't help but share this quote that I thought was a perfect way to look at your lack of information as an opportunity as opposed to an obstacle.

 

Q: "What projects are your favourite and why? Can you tell us what was the client's brief and walk us through the process from start to finish?"

 

Vyonyx: "Projects most valuable to us are those where we are given the freedom to improvise. Improvising, basically, is what means to be truly artistic. Projects where we are given a very loose brief and even a looser 3D model are our element! Less information equals more freedom to us. Clients feel somehow guilty for providing us with so little information, and we love to abuse this situation doing the stuff our ways."

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it comes across that you are looking at the lack of information provided as a huge problem, however I thought vyonyx had a particularly good way to look at it.

 

Here's the article if anyone wants to take a look - http://www.cgrecord.net/2010/08/interview-with-vyonyx.html

 

That's great! It's just a shame that, so often, you'll end up going with freedom, and the client not liking it. There's little worse than repeatedly trying different styles, only for the client to knock back each one because it's not what they're looking for, without actually telling you what they're looking for. You can end up being used as a sound board which can be good, but sometimes you end up making 2x or 3x the number of images you're actually being paid for, because there are mulitple versions of each (even if they aren't all polished). As mentioned, this project sounds like there's going to be a lot of design and development going on throughout the process, which for 12 images is no small task.

[danb4026]

Guys, thanks for all of your input and advice!

 

As far as assistance with this project, I think quality Photoshop work would be the most helpful. I seem to always be doing my PS work when the deadline is so close that I can't put the time into it that is needed.

 

I am going to base my initial price on a 4 week deadline and use my hourly rate to come up with price. This way, none of my time is wasted, no matter what I am doing. Just prior to that deadline date being reached, I will discuss the add-on services if we are going to go past.

 

P.S. I view this job very positively, not as an obstacle whatsoever. I just needed advice from the experience here to give me a better idea of how to approach the job. I really enjoy the collaboration with the design teams of the architectural groups and the back and forth banter.

[neil poppleton]

I was reading a vyonyx interview and I couldn't help but share this quote that I thought was a perfect way to look at your lack of information as an opportunity as opposed to an obstacle.

 

Q: "What projects are your favourite and why? Can you tell us what was the client's brief and walk us through the process from start to finish?"

 

Vyonyx: "Projects most valuable to us are those where we are given the freedom to improvise. Improvising, basically, is what means to be truly artistic. Projects where we are given a very loose brief and even a looser 3D model are our element! Less information equals more freedom to us. Clients feel somehow guilty for providing us with so little information, and we love to abuse this situation doing the stuff our ways."

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it comes across that you are looking at the lack of information provided as a huge problem, however I thought vyonyx had a particularly good way to look at it.

 

Here's the article if anyone wants to take a look - http://www.cgrecord.net/2010/08/interview-with-vyonyx.html

 

I agree the projects you receive with minimal information are often the most rewarding, but time consuming...