Pumuckle Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 All right its time to ask a stupid question. sorry. Is it necessary to attend an archiecture school just so that you can learn the art?? b/c i attend a graphics art school and got an associates and i already know my way around 3ds max (not like a super pro). Would it be smarter to keep building 3d models and improving my demo reel or go back to school and learn what the instructors say? please help me figure out this dilemma.thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 so you wanna learn architecture or architectural illustration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumuckle Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 architectural illustration/visualisation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 There are plenty of people in this field who have no formal training in architecture but are able to understand what the designers are looking for and can compose a scene in a way this is visually pleasing. It's totally possable to do this without a degree in Architecture, but having said that I must also say that having the degree will not only give you more credability with other architects and designers but will give you the upperhand on someone who may be looking to take you job who might have a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 The ability to read plans is very important. This is a technical field in that you need to be able to understand the technical drawings and they can be complicated. Many architects will not appriciate it if you ask them what their details mean. It is one thing to view a building and think "I could render that" than to see a set of plans and say the same. Personally I would say take the classes and do your portfolio. Classes are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I wouldn't worry about the classes. I've got 7 years of architectural education and I still have to ask for them to make things more clear. Take some art classes that show presentation methods, maybe photography, etc. Things that show you how to frame images, balance compositions, etc. They won't teach ytou that in arch school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 There are plenty of people in this field who have no formal training in architecture Yeah, like me. No formal training in anything. You do not need to be an architect to do architectural rendering. In fact, I think it hurt to be one, because of all the crap that architects are taught about the noblest of the arts, etc. Architects aren't taught how to run a business, usually. That would really help. And if being an architect was such a positive for presenting architecture graphically--why do they need renderers? Having said that, most of the renderers I know are/were architects. Just not me. Follow your heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Paske Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 My feeling is that you should learn as much about architecture as possible, not just how to read plans, but to learn the language that architects speak. Eventually, as a consultant or as an in-house visualization specialist, you'll become more valuable and trusted. We can't all be Ernest Burden's I think one of future trends from a survey on this site was more visualization was moving in-house in the upcoming years. Most firms would like to hire people who have good design skills (requires schooling usually) and good visualization skills. On the other hand, people who have computer skills beyond that which someone who is occupied with many other things, like architects, should look at stand-alone visualization firms who can create renderings and animations to a extremely high level, or a particular style to best fit a client. Or find a firm that can support high level visualization people without thinking of them as a "future architect" like so many do. I agree completely with you MBR, I've got 7 years of schooling too and 7 years fulltime experience...and I still have to ask them questions. So long as they're good questions, Architects see you as being thourough - and a lot of times you'll pick up on mistakes or things that haven't been thought about. Bottom line, learn everything you can - art, architecture, business, law, yogo...whatever. It all helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Really, I know a lot of wonderful talented renderers including EB III have little or no experiance but man I would find that tough. One of the last houses I looked at was so complicated and often drawn very wrong but if I did not have years of experiance and drafting classes I would have been lost. Maybe I am a bit slow but I really need the drafting I have had to be able to work my way through plans. At least the more complicated drawings and then yes to ba able to make a judgement call on what I think was presented to me incorrectly. Regardless of how important reading plans may end up being to you it is only one aspect. Artistic presentation and ability is as important and will make your work stand out. There are alot of classes you could take if you are able to. Often a class just shows you how to avoid making common mistakes. A class on how to market your work may be the most valuable. Personally I think classes are good and if you spend one semester drafting at a community college and you only use it a little bit later on you really have not wasted that much. But that's just my 2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 yeah, it might help if you took some working drawing classes at a local college. it will help you understand the language of architectural drawings. take more drawing, painting, photography classes, these will be much more useful to you. build on your graphic art background. you will refine skills that are not specific to genre. anyone can learn the software used in this field by just sitting down infront of it, so don't go to classes for that. ...and ernest is right, architecture IS the noblest of the arts! (haha, i know you didn't say that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 as said, understanding complicated architectural drawings (and boy, in my experience architects in general havent a clue on how to actually draw!!!) is an essential. i personally think you must be an artist or artistically minded to enter this job. before i draw any 3d project i can always pre-visualise it in 3d in my head first. this for me is a massive pluss point. i've only got a 3 year basic qualification in architecture which i only got because of circumstances at the time. but that basic qualification has helped me get my foot in the door where ever i go. then it's down to experience and enthusiasm. in nearly 15 years doing this i've gained enough experience to be on par with my fellow architect collegues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumuckle Posted July 21, 2004 Author Share Posted July 21, 2004 well i think that everybody makes a good point and it will take some time for me to come to my conclusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 and it also depend where you are trying to get jobs... it's much more difficult in Europe if you dont have a degree in architecture.. I personnaly dont have one... and this is giving me real hard time, and lots of arch-houses dont even want to see my portfolio because of this lack of degree.... he he... my one cent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trhoads Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Originally posted by EBIII And if being an architect was such a positive for presenting architecture graphically--why do they need renderers? I have a great dela of respect for EBIII. Your web page is amazing, and I don't think that there is anyone on these forums that will disagree that you are very talented. But i think that you have a slightly misguided opinion regarding architects. Architects need renderers, not because they can not convey there design plans in a 2D fashion, i.e. plans, elevations and sections, but because clients have no clue what they are looking at. Clients, even those who have been developers for 30 years, do not see 2D drawings the same way architects do. I deal with this every day. 3D hand renderings were a great design tool, but you had one shot at it. Now with 3D models, we have an unlimited ability to look at a building, and help the client see what there building will look like. I went to an art and design school, I have a Bachelors, and a Masters in Architecture, and I think that the art background definatley helps. THe problem lies in the institutions that teach architecture. Most are so technical, with no emphasis on presentation or creativity. They are too concerend with the precision of the profession, but with no passion. I do almost all of my own design work at the firm I work for. And I do all of the 3D work for the whole office. In my opinion this is a very valuable tool, to be able to see a project all the way through, I have the concept, and I know where the desing is supposed to end up. To be the one that draws theis, then models this and presents it in a 3D fashion, this streamlines our process. Learn as much as you can, it won't hurt. It can only hurt to be un-educated. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Warner Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 To counter Travis' opinion, a great deal of the architects I deal with have only an inkling of an idea of what their buildings are going to look like three-dimensionally, and tell me so.."So that's what it looks like....interesting!" Back on the topic, I went to the same school as Travis, and even though I don't practice architecture, I know that the schooling I had helped me invaluably in this profession. Knowing how a building goes together is quite important in my opinion. -Chad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 To counter Travis' opinion, a great deal of the architects I deal with have only an inkling of an idea of what their buildings are going to look like three-dimensionally, and tell me so.."So that's what it looks like....interesting!" -Chad exactly the situation i come across every day. funny isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Now with 3D models, we have an unlimited ability to look at a building, and help the client see what there building will look like. ...and this is a good thing? ...i will argue that it has just as many minuses as positives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trhoads Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I will admit that a lot of architects can not visualize their own work. It is a shame. I would bet that a great deal of them are the older generation of architects. In my opinion, the new generation of architects are much more creative, and have thee ability to see in three dimensions, duein part to their ability to modle a building on the computer now. I think it helps so much to have that skill. I use it as a design tool on a daily basis, and that is why I think it is a good thing to see a building from all angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I have a great dela of respect...But... You could run for Congress. To refine my point--I did not CHOOSE to skip higher education, life did not present it as an option. Worse still, a few years ago my (archtect/renderer) father told me that it was great how I had managed--completely on my own--to match his achievements in drawing and similar things within the arch. field WITHOUT having gone to college. Somehow this releases him from any guilt from throwing me into the deep end of the pool to live or die on my own at 16. Great. So, given the opportunity, I may very well have gone to study art at an institution of higher learning. But not architecture, it just isn't my thing. I have worked closely with architects almost daily for 25 years. They have, as a lot, failed to impress me much in terms of attitude, competency, business practices and in some cases, basic skills. But not all, some are brilliant. I like working with lower-level people in architectural firms, they are usually the ones who do most of the real work and rarely have holier-than-thou attitudes. Their bosses are sometimes another story. Limit this comment to east-coast American architects. Your architects may vary. But that is besides the real point of this thread. You have to look at what you want to do and what is the best way for you to get there. While architecture school may be a big help in becoming a renderer, it is NOT necessary. The same five years and tens (or even hundreds) of thousands of dollars could be spent on other means to the same ends. I worked as an assistant to a renderer for about four years before going it on my own. I learned the trade and earned a meager living selling meagers. I use the learn-by-doing model. But school would have been great, too. You get more out of college than just the targeted vocational aspects. It's a chance to try things out, study whatever you want, even if you don't NEED to. Once you get older, you don't get back to that very easily. Now, if you have a strong stomach, look into this school sfia , it was started by a life-long friend of my father. It teaches organic and environmental architecture. You can be sure that drawing is a large part of what is expected of the students. But it is not a very big or well established school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trhoads Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Yeah, my typing skills are crap. No thanks on the politics, not my idea of a good time. I again agree with EBIII. I have a friend currently attending sfia, and he really enjoys it. He has nothing but good things to say about the school. EBIII, I forgot to tell you, I have a copy of what I guess is either your book of entourage, or your fathers. We still use it from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I have a friend currently attending sfia, and he really enjoys it. He has nothing but good things to say about the school. My goodness, you mean they actually GOT a student...I mean, of course, what is he studying? I have a copy of what I guess is either your book of entourage, or your fathers. My father, though a certain amount of the drawn stuff in there I drew, more was drawn by one of my sisters, still more by my former boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 that sfia school could almost be mistaken for the Roger Dean School of Architecture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 EB, Seems almost like we had simular experiances with our fathers and all. Regardless you do inspiring work at something you may not have the passion for. That in itself is an achievement. Someday I would love to see your fine art work if you find time to make it available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 my father was an accountant before he passed away, phew, glad i was never a pen pusher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trhoads Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I second that opinion, the last thing I wanted to do everyday, was play with numbers and papers all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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