32 bit or convert to 64 bit - Andrew Lynn?

[dpinning]

Hello all (Andrew),

 

Brain Smith defered to Andrew on the hardware techy stuff when I asked about his transition from 32 bit to 64 bit. I tried to search for a post addressing this but 32 bit 64 bit yielded no results. Perhaps the search words are too short. Anyway here is my situation.

 

I am a landscape architect who has had interest in 3d for awhile and am just now acting on it. A few years ago, anticipating moving forward with that, I purchase a few used workstation computers (laptop and desktop) that had open gl graphics cards as that seemed to be important. They also are running 32 XP pro as that seemed to be the Windows OS to have for these programs. The whole 32 bit vs 64 bit issue went over my head for some reason. I have downloaded student versions of 3ds Max 2011, AutoCAD 2011, Mudbox 2011, Sketchbook Pro, Sketchup 8 (free) in order to learn the programs and see if I enjoy it as much as I think I will. I download the software onto my laptop for portability. My laptop specs are:

Dell M4400 Laptop Workstation

Precision Mobile Workstation M4400 Laptop: IntelCore 2 Duo P8400 (2.26GHz, 3M L2 Cache, 1066MHz FSB)

160 GB Free Fall Sensor Hard Drive (7200RPM)

8X DVD +/- RW w/dbl layer write capability

4 GB DDR2 SDRAM 800MHz (2 DIMMs)

15.4 inch UltraSharp WUXGA (1920x1200) CCFLLaptop Screen

512MB NVIDIA Quadro FX 770M

Genuine Windows XP Pro

 

My questions are these: 1) Before I go any further, should I switch to a 64 bit operating system so that I can take advantage of adding more memory (8mb in the laptop...more in the workstation), or (since I am just learning all of this software) simply stay with 32 bit until I decide it's for me (e.g. Most tutorials and projects will work fine on 32 bit with 4 gb memory?

2) If going to 64 bit is the suggestion, a) which version of Windows 7 64 would you recommend loading? b) Do you have a primer on actually making the switch (how to do it technically and what to do with old files, can files created in 32 bit be read in 64 bit etc.)

3) I'm assuming all of the bugs, incompatibilities etc have been worked out of 64 bit by this time?

4)Another reason for the switch was that if I ended up using some of these current systems as part of a render farm in the future, my understanding is files created in 64 bit must be rendered in 64 bit and same goes for 32 bit (all systems from the modeler to renderer to renderers outsourced by Backburner must be either 32 or 64 bit)?

 

 

If anyone has links to a thread where this has all been hashed out before, that would be great too. Thanks in advance.

 

Best,

David

[AJLynn]

Hi David. Good questions. And I'm in a pretty long line at the barber shop so I have some time to write Okay, first things first. 64 bit works on a Core 2. What it does is expand the address space of the operating system's memory handler. In order to handle memory, the OS needs an internal "map" of the memory, to keep track of what is going where. In a 32 bit OS, that map is kept track of using 32-bit numbers (32 binary digits), so the amount of memory that can be handled is limited to the number of bytes that can be given an address in such a map, which works out to 4 gb. The 4 gb doesn't have to be physical memory, it can be, say, 1gb of memory plus 3gb available in virtual memory (memory that's been offloaded to temporary space on the hard drive, which is of course slow). The 4 gb has to be divided between memory available to to OS and memory available to applications. The default is 2gb/2gb, but that can be modified. Realistically, the most you can get away with is 3gb apps, 1gb OS, but I've had problems with not all drivers loading in 1gb. So the most memory an app can ever take up in a 32 bit system is 3gb.

 

A 64 bit system replaces the 32 bit address space with 64 bit. This requires the cooperation of the CPU, motherboard and software. 64 bit can hold far more than 4 gb (so much more I can't remember the number) and because it has enough address space to spare it can give a huge amount of memory space to both OS and apps, enough that you don't have to worry about the split anymore. Apps can use all the memory you can thrown at them. But even if you don't add more than 4 gb, the 4 gb you have are handled better under 64 bit because you don't have to worry about splitting the memory space - so these days I recommend 64 bit to everybody, no matter how much memory they plan to use.

 

Also, if you're still on XP, it really is time for a change. XP is old technology. It lacks a lot of the newer security features and is barely supported by Microsoft anymore. You certainly should upgrade to 64 bit Windows 7.

 

You should probably get Windows 7 Professional. It has the most compatibility with office networks and the XP compatibility mode in case you do happen to have old software. Unfortunately it can't be installed as a simple upgrade. You need to copy your files to another drive, nuke the drive and install from scratch, do new software installs (which you'd need to do anyway in the case of any 64 bit software - 64 bit versions of programs are needed if you want them to be able to use more than 4 gb of address space - because 64 bit versions don't get installed on 32 bit XP) then copy your stuff back over. Since your hard drive is kind of small - do you have the expertise to replace a hard drive in a laptop? One way to do it would simply be to replace the hard drive then put the old one in a USB external case to copy your files when you're done.

 

Btw, are you a student or a business user? If you're not a student you're really not supposed to be using the Autodesk student downloads. If you are, I think you'll find newer version on the site.

[Slinger]

Win 7 64bit max memory is 192 gb of ram

[dpinning]

Thank you for the prompt reply Andy (& Slinger). I say student versions as that's what they are labeled, but they are actually through the Autodesk Assistance Program as I lost my job in the design profession and am trying to learn new skills.

 

I think my laptop will top out at 8 regardless of Win 7 64 bit max...but 8 is better than 3! : ) Being a landscape architect focusing mostly on exteriors, high poly vegetation will get it up there quickly!

 

Thank you for your take on the transition. Exactly what I needed. To make sure I've got the gist, the actually programs will need to be reloaded onto the new drive where Windows 7 64 bit pro resides then I can copy over whatever files I made? Will I be able to open any 32 bit files in the 64 bit version of the software that created them? While I don't currently have the expertise to do what you are saying regarding replacing the hard drive with a larger one and loading the new system onto that then placing the old drive in an USB external case, I'm a fast learner so I can search for a tutorial on that or any tips you can provide would be appreciated. Any recs on a specific hard drive (brand speed specs etc)? (related, but I can ask later as I believe it deals with multiple hard drives...RAID configurations etc...unless you have a good link on that too?).

 

Really looking forward to just learning the tools and doing the work rather than deciding on hardware/software issues. What a great community willing to share experience. I'm looking forward to being able to give back rather than just taking.

 

Thanks guys,

David

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Once you go 64 you will never go back.

[dpinning]

That sounds vaguely familiar CHG. : ) Andy, a laptop hard drive like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136692&cm_re=lap_top_hard_drives-_-22-136-692-_-Product or this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136835&cm_re=lap_top_hard_drives-_-22-136-835-_-Product ? Specs seem to be okay right? Don't know that I need more that 500GB as I have a few 1tb portables that I will backup to.

[AJLynn]

David, when I get home I'll check on the hard drive question.

[AJLynn]

Hard drives: Your laptop uses standard 2.5" SATA laptop hard drives. With Dell sometimes there's a screw-on bracket on the original drive that you have to transfer to the new one. This one is pretty nice - your OS will get installed in flash storage for faster booting, with most of the space being normal hard drive so it's not as expensive as an SSD drive. This kind is also quite fast, and this one is almost as fast an an excellent value (and uses less power in most situations).