RyanSpaulding Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Outta sheer curiosity, how much money do you all make per year doing this viz stuff? I clear $23,000 per year, but I'm also a newbie to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 I dont think you're going to get people spilling their financial beans, but from you're prior post I think you are probably vastly under paid. I hope your situation is not indicative of Madison. I was there for the marathon and thought it was a beautiful city. I would love to move there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanSpaulding Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 I never understood why people wont say this. It's never been a big deal to me to let people know what I make. What could anyone even do? Ohhh....you all know I make $23,000 now...so? And I know I'm underpaid, but I'm new. Money is no measure of the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 when i got my first job doing 3d for an arch firm, i started at $24,000. it was on par with others who were fresh out of college with an arch degree, no matter what they were doing. that was 5-6 years ago for me. ...and like everyone else, i don't mind being asking survey questions about pay, but i would rather not reveal them directly. i think pay was noted on some of the survey's here before. a little digging would probably turn them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlangas Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 And you thought you were underpaid!!! I make $8,400 USD a year and still make more that some architects fresh out of college (Not kidding). Although I don´t do 3d all the time I also do drafting and what not. I asked some people how much they made doing CG in Mexico as I am trying to get into freelancing and dont know what to charge, but never got a straight answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Okay, I'll throw myself on the pyre for the sake of discussion: Objectively speaking, if you are clearing 23k, then that means you are being paid around 27k a year (15% tax bracket) which would equal out to about $13.50 an hour. If you are 23 and have nothing higher than an associates degree or equivalent, then that sounds about right for Wisconsin. For others, homefair.com has a cost-of-living comparison calculator which also has international options (though Cancun was not among them). For instance, a 27,000 annual salary in Madison is roughly equal to about 65,000 in Manhattan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Objectively speaking, if you are clearing 23k, then that means you are being paid around 27k a year (15% tax bracket) For instance, a 27,000 annual salary in Madison is roughly equal to about 65,000 in Manhattan. I got the impression he was saying he has a salary of 23K, not take-home. Yeah, NY is expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 When someone says they 'clear' x amount, I was always under the impression that meant take home pay. Clarification, Ryan? Just saw a previous post where you stated $11.07/hr which is about 23k/yr gross. How do you pay your heating bill up there? Do you have a degree? Are you employed by an AE firm? If so, how many people work there? Do you have a website or examples of your work? Okay, let's look at this a slightly different way. The median income of the median age resident (37) of Madison is 45,000/yr. Now we have to make a couple assumptions. First of all, for inflation, take a ten year average from historical data and you get a 1.25 multiplier (not exact, but close enough for this). That would give you a target earnings goal of $56,250 by the time you reach age 37 (given your profile age of 23). With a standard cost-of-living increase of 4% annually (if you never change jobs or get a raise above the cost-of-living adjustment), you should be making approx. $32,500 today. Unscientific? Definitely! If you average a 5% increase to factor in a couple raises above the col, your current figure comes down to $28,500 which would be about right for a college graduate starting a technical production position the day after graduation in Wisconsin. Since we have come this far, why not test it out a bit more? Let's use Travis from Ohio as an example. Given $24,000 5 years ago, apply the 1.25 10 year inflation rate and you come to an equivalent starting salary today of $27,000 for the same position. Not too far off from the $28,500 figure from above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 i make enough to pay my mortgage, pay my bills, buy nice things, go on holiday abroad every year, and really enjoy my life. i certainly dont make a fortune and certainly could do with some more, but i see it as money management and allocation in my case. also, the shear love of my job compensates for lack of extra salary. that is 1000 times more important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mann Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 the shear love of my job compensates for lack of extra salary. Strat, Don't let your boss read that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanSpaulding Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 Just saw a previous post where you stated $11.07/hr which is about 23k/yr gross. How do you pay your heating bill up there? Do you have a degree? Are you employed by an AE firm? If so, how many people work there? Do you have a website or examples of your work? QUOTE] Lol. I barely pay it my man. I have a roomate and dont indulge in the finer things. My bills leave me with like $300 extra a month =( I have a degree from the Madison Media Institute (expensive) and am employed by a viz/consulting firm....including me, it's 3 people. I'll get examples up soon...but I feel I should be making more than I am... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Ryan, is that really what you are making, $11 per hour? Or is that how much it works out to be in a regular 40 hour week? There's a big difference between starting out and searching for work and not getting paid what you should. I hope it's the former, where you are just not getting enough work. If it's not, consider that you are charging what people in countries where the cost of living is substantially lower (I get solicitations all the time for $10 hour). If you don't feel confident enough to ask for more, spend a little time getting better. It's not hard, you just have to spend the time to do some homework and practice. Grab some of the free models around and just start. As for myself, things are comfortable and I've been able to buy some toys. There is a reason that I left architecture after 7 years of school (hint: and it's not because I like it more than architecture!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanSpaulding Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 $11.07 is what it works out to be. I get paid salary. As for work, I'm new, but we are WAY backed up in work. We've got New Mexico DOT work, Pangea (a country club in GA), Northern Bay (another Country Club/Golf Course). We've got stuff to keep us busy for sure. I'll be doing my own stuff too for fun (because they use Microstation *blah* and I use 3ds Max)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 I like everyone else am leery about posting what my exact salary is, it's just not something that professionals openly discuss. I will say that when I graduated about 4 years ago the starting salary of someone who strictly does Viz was between $35K and $50k. Of course it completely matters what part of the world you are living in, and what kind of experience you have in the field. If you have a big portfolio of nicely crafted work you could easily get more that $50k with the right company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 because they use Microstation *blah* and I use 3ds Max)... microstation is great for drafting, but i would never model in it. far more intutive than autocad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 There's a big difference between starting out and searching for work and not getting paid what you should. If you don't feel confident enough to ask for more, spend a little time getting better. I concur. About the only position I would feel OK with paying someone $10 - $15/hr would be general office work, part-time. Someone doing post office runs, getting coffee, straightening up after the messy artists...a teenager's summer job comes to mind. Anyone with skills that contribute directly to billable items would be worth more. I have had freelancers charge me as little as $25/hr, but $50 is more common, and when I have a collegue help with a project its usually more like $100 - $200 per hour. So you are being underpaid, almost certainly. Another thing to look at is the quality of the firm you are working for. Is their work good? Are they charging enough if it is? You know the expression about rats leaving a sinking ship? Well, you don't want to be a rat, but if you aren't the captain, why go down with the ship, either? The best thing for you would be to post some of your work here and let us know-it-alls pick your bones. Those of us that are established and experienced in this business did not have this resource available to us when we were starting out. In that, you are lucky, so take advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Alexander Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Ryan, Ouch, I'll pay ya 12.50 to swing a hammer in Milwaukee Metro! I've been trying to understand this Viz pay sceme for a number of years now. Just like you I feel 23k is just a little low, however there is an engineering firm that has a viz sideline in Milwaukee offering house renderings for $500.00 a pop. That's really low considering the direct competition in Madison would do it for about $1200.00, basic lighting and materials. So all being relative to overhead and profit if it takes you 3 days to render a house your probably in a fair salary range for $500.00 a pop. Being that we have not hired an entry level carpenter / grunt for less than 10/hr (little or no experience) compared to the knowledge & skill level that good viz requires- it just does not seem to be equitable pay scales. Anyway life is not about $/yr, Strats got it right, it's about the joy of doing your work! You know you could a job at McDondalds or Menards and make a similar salary. I did a stint at Menards, I'd rather do Viz. rgrds WDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donix Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Anyway life is not about $/yr, Strats got it right, it's about the joy of doing your work! You know you could a job at McDondalds or Menards and make a similar salary. I did a stint at Menards, I'd rather do Viz. I agree to this one. for starters like me, it is not how much we earned but how much we gained knowledge with the one we're doing. work to learn and in the end, it will pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanSpaulding Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 Well I have nothing finished that is vindicitive of my skills. I will whip something up soon. I have an old bar scene that I did, but it was done in like 5 hours for a class so it's nothing amazing. I just needed a grade. I only really asked this question because I wanna see where I should eventually be at in a year or 2 or more... I'm not SO worried what I make now...I have a 2nd job as a waiter to keep me afloat for the time being. Thanks to everyone for the responses. P.S. I dont have examples cuz I'm working on designing my portfolio, gettin up to speed on video editing, and starting an architectural design site (mostly for my organizational purposes). So I'm a busy guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Mike Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 experience makes a real difference in charges. in my agency, we are four ppl to make 3d. One is paied 10 000 Euros per month, another 4000 Euros per month. The one who is paied 10 000 has been in the society for 15 years. He knows perfectly the taste of the boss in terms of colour, atimosphere, etc...the other is there for 3 years. But Strat's right, this activity is so enjoyable, we are really lucky !! Not many ppl love their job for what it is.. Generally it is more because they are forced to like it (if not it's death), or becaus they can earn enough money to do what they want. I can spend hours, nights, week ends in this "thing", whithout having the feeling of beeing working. I like it much more than a child likes his playstation Be happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 I don't understand well how to charge per hours, how do you calculate the amount of time! Do you use a chronometre o you estimate them by eye? When you pass a client a fee proposal how do you know how long is that going to take? What if you got stuck in some point ( for instance the architect has to consult the client on something really important)..and have to wait some hours untill u can go on) Apologize for my ignorance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 The calculation of how much time it's going to take to finish a rendering or animation really depends on how much experience you have. If you've done similar projects in the past then you should have a good idea of what is involved in developing it and how long that will take. In instances where you are stopped from working because you are waiting on the architect or the client you need to make sure you cover that in the contract. You should make it clear that meeting your deadline all hinges on whether or not the architect or client has given you all of the correct information. In instances where you are waiting on them to pick colors or finalize a piece of the design, make sure they know that it will affect the deadline and you will need more time or if they wont budge on that then it will cost them more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Non expected events can screw a very elaborated fee proposal, like: The client gives you an inconsistent set of drawings . The set of drawing is not Cadd generated , just some ol'fashion hand drawings! Couldn't be possible establish some kind of ratio like: n Square feet could take x hours? Or better yet calculate the fee based on a percentage of the Sq.footage of the project object of the work? Dividing the Arch.projects in different categories according to the complexity for modeling/rendering? According to my experience (more than 10 years rendering all the way) the only predictable I can tell you about the amount of hours is that that is totally unpredictable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted August 14, 2004 Share Posted August 14, 2004 Well, this thread was about salary, not freelancing or moonlighting rates. That subject gets covered every couple weeks or so it seems. Do a search for rates and you'll find quite a bit. For Ryan, Go to Salary.com and look under Graphic Arts for Wisconsin. Your job description would fall under the category of Arch. Drafter I (or Painter/Illustrator) which puts the low end around $27,000/yr Salary.com has always seemed a bit inflated though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Paske Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Hi Ryan and fellow Madisonian, I think you are being paid poorly, but that's not unusual for someone in your age group. I was swinging hammer's and drafting part time, going to school and doing about as good as you are now when I was 23 or 24. You're right - it's no measure of man, as long as you're having fun and looking ahead. I'll private message you about salary and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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