3DIFX Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 How do you handle a client that is unhappy because they put the rendering up against the built building the colors are slightly off. We keep trying to get the client to understand that this is just an artist's rendition to get a general idea of how the building would look, but they don't get it. They seem to think that photo-realistic means that the building is going to look exactly like the rendering. How can this be when colors are going to vary slightly from one computer to the next, from one printer to the next? I am trying to get them to understand (verbally in a text). Does anyone have any tips on how I should respond to them when in their eyes they feel like they are not getting what they wanted when comparing the rendering to the built building. I'm pretty sure that they must have approved a mock up of the building. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Geers Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Sheesh, tough one to explain in brief. Here are some thoughts. How did you decide on the colors you chose? Were you given actual material samples with the desired colors or something less precise? How different are the printed colors than the actual built colors? If they're pretty far off maybe you are somewhat culpable. Otherwise, it could be an issue with the quality of the print he's looking at. Color has a lot to do with light. Is he looking at the building at the same time of day that the rendering was lit for? At sunset colors will look different from noon or at night with artificial lighting. He's also comparing, for example, paint on stucco with ink on photo paper which will make colors appear different. A more fair comparison would be to take a photo of the building that matches the rendering as close as possible and compare the colors on the photo to the rendering. Even then, you'll introduce the issue of white balance within the photo which changes the color. Essentially, I think I'd tell them that the colors on the rendering are meant to be representational and that you get them as close to accurate as is possible given the information you're provided. If he feels the colors on the rendering inaccurately represent the building, I'd recommend digging into the issue further to find out where the error was introduced. Perhaps it's even the builders who used the wrong colors or the color samples you were given were incorrect. -Brodie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DIFX Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hi Brodie. Thanks for the reply. That's just the thing....it's just slightly off and could be influenced by any of the factors that you mentioned! You bring up some good points that I hadn't thought of ..... ink on paper vs. pigment in paint on stucco. Time of day, time of year and daily/hourly weather conditions are also an influence. The client was initially satisfied with our print and color rendention which we did to represent a nice sunny day. I'm sure they'll never even be able to take a photograph that completely matches the rendering. The client is still pretty happy with the rendering, and they aren't thinking of taking any legal action or anything like that. They would just like an explanation on the color differences and your comments are very helpful to me in that regard. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 With color management it is possible to develop custom profiles based on specific lighting conditions, but if they are viewing it outdoors and want to work with standard profiles, you'd have to make sure the lighting is diffuse midday sun approx 5000K to have it match the print. This is also assuming you've got you're own color management systems locked down tight. Otherwise, have them look at some mood boards/sample boards. That's what most people do. I have an idea. Tell them getting colors to match that closely is going to require an outside expert to come in and measure all of your material samples, completely calibrate and fine tune your system and they (the client) will have to view the rendering only when the outdoor lighting is approx 5000K or in a viewing booth. Oh and that expert is going to cost them about $5000 + travel expenses. That's what I'd charge someone to come on site for the better part of a week and fine tune an entire color management workflow so it matches like they want. That's on top of the equipment you'd likely have to buy as well and possibly better monitors, light booths, controlled lighting environments etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notamondayfan Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 The only thing I would add, that we use quite often, is to get the client to supply a digital reference image that shows the lighting conditions, material finishes and colours, etc so we can then match our materials and composition to that. This way, even if the colours look wrong to us, they must be fine on their systems and printers. Colours are the biggest head ache, and getting clients to understand that things like environment, lighting, even how the image is framed, can affect our perception of colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marius e Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Not trying to be funny......but that is exactly the problem with the term "photo realistic" if that is what u stated then I can understand the issue he has. U can also tell him that colour will vary according to the time of day, season and sunny or cloudy. Also, take a photo of the building in different exposures and techniques, and it will vary in colour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrender Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Agree with all the above comments. Probably the best way to convince them of these variables is to do a test for them. - Have them take a picture of the sky or a building. - Go inside, make a print of the image. - Go back outside and hold the printed image up to the real sky/building. Obviously there will be a huge difference between real life light intensities perceived by the human eye, and printed image intensities. This is a huge difference, and doesn't even begin to take into account time of day, weather, season, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DIFX Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ooooooh.....good one Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DIFX Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Very good suggestions everybody. I'm taking notes! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt McDonald Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 - Have them take a picture of the sky or a building. - Go inside, make a print of the image. - Go back outside and hold the printed image up to the real sky/building. +1 The client will probably view this as a snarky response but I think that it is a fairly easy way to illustrate what is happening. In these physics based rendedering engines we are simulating a real camera in simulated real lighting conditions where color of light and toning curves can and do apply. If your client is unhappy with the result you can pull all of the color of light out of the rendering, remove any toning curves. Then the renderer will output RGB values which match those that were input in the first place. The rendering will be somewhat flat due to lack of contrast but you'll have an RGB in RGB out workflow. Then there's the question of color management...you can take that one up with Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Zaslavsky Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 i would also wonder whether they are bringing up the "colour" excuse because they don't want to pay for the work ... hopefully you resolve their questions shortly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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