Question on cabinets, specifically Kitchens and Baths...

[kmanus]

I'm wondering what some other people are using in their workflows for kitchens and baths (and interiors in general), particularly when it comes to cabinets.

 

In my workflow, I use 20/20 to build the cabinets only, and export those as .dwg's. This is my preferred method, although I end up having to fix a lot of flipped faces and weird geometry. I could just add a shell modifier to deal with the flipped faces, but I'd rather keep the models as clean as possible. I generally use the built in catalogs, although sometimes we are fortunate to have some manufacturer catalogs in cases where we need to use a specific brand/style.

 

I've also used Sketch-up in a similar way, although the available dynamic objects are pretty sparse from what I've been able to gather.

 

In both cases I'm importing the models into 3DS Max.

 

I'm wondering what everyone else's workflow looks like when making a kitchen or bath. Are you designing the cabinets from scratch? Are you using a different software package to build the cabinets and import them in? What tools or plug-ins exist and are good for making cabinets?

 

Also, has anyone used KCD cabinet design software for this purpose?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who shares, I'd love to find some ways to make this part of my job more efficient...

[Scott Schroeder]

I'm wondering what some other people are using in their workflows for kitchens and baths (and interiors in general), particularly when it comes to cabinets.

 

In my workflow, I use 20/20 to build the cabinets only, and export those as .dwg's. This is my preferred method, although I end up having to fix a lot of flipped faces and weird geometry. I could just add a shell modifier to deal with the flipped faces, but I'd rather keep the models as clean as possible. I generally use the built in catalogs, although sometimes we are fortunate to have some manufacturer catalogs in cases where we need to use a specific brand/style.

 

I've also used Sketch-up in a similar way, although the available dynamic objects are pretty sparse from what I've been able to gather.

 

In both cases I'm importing the models into 3DS Max.

 

I'm wondering what everyone else's workflow looks like when making a kitchen or bath. Are you designing the cabinets from scratch? Are you using a different software package to build the cabinets and import them in? What tools or plug-ins exist and are good for making cabinets?

 

Also, has anyone used KCD cabinet design software for this purpose?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who shares, I'd love to find some ways to make this part of my job more efficient...

 

If you render in Max, model in max. If you break that process, expect to tear your hair out in regular intervals.

 

As far as using a shell modifier, that's an insane fix for a simple problem. All you need to do is flip the normal direction. Adding a shell modifier is ludicrous.

 

Kitchen cabinets are very easy to model in Max. If you don't know how I suggest rather than wasting time importing garbage from other programs, take the time to learn to model in Max.

 

I create all of my cabinets and geometry in Max. That way it's easily textured, lit, and rendered and I know what to expect.

 

What kind of cabinets are you needing to make? Most of the modern cabinets are simple boxes, or even Shaker style cabinets are 4 1X4 boxes framed out, with a simple plane geometry in the center. If you need an arch style design, draw splines and extrude them. You'll find that it's not rocket science and you'll save yourself way more effort and pain by just doing the proper work in Max.

[kmanus]

Thanks, When I'm talking about flipped normals, they are not flipped uniformly, so just flipping the normals for the whole model doesn't fix the problem (or really about half the problem). I've got a pretty good system down for doing this and can fix most cabinets in under a minute. I don't use the shell modifier, I just list it as an option for a quick fix.

 

I can model a cabinet in the method you've explained (I believe you are referring to using the Bevel Profile Modifier or the Sweep modifier), and have done it before, but it ends up being pretty time consuming, especially for the large kitchens I tend to work on. Also, while working for most cabinets, the method is not as cut-and-dry for all cabinet styles. The cabinets I'm making usually have to be to the manufacturers specs, and getting them from 20/20 or sketch-up saves me time modeling and ensures they are to spec and in sizes the manufacturer carries.

 

I'm unsure what hair-pulling you are referring to. Other than dealing with a few flipped faces I haven't had any other problems with the .dwg's that 2020 outputs, or the .skp's from Sketch-up. I guess I'm curious as to what you are referring to.

[JonRashid]

Many of the manufacturers now provide all their product in digital formats for free now. The likes of Villeroy Bosch allow anyone to download .3ds files of the complete ranges specifically to be used in arch viz. They hope that people will specify what they see when it comes to the build.

[Scott Schroeder]

The hair pulling reference is simple. You are taking a simple process and overly complicating it by introducing 3rd party software that causes issues, ie flipped normals and so on.

 

You only need to model one cabinet, then copy it around. If you need to change sizes, simply move the edge verts around. You literally create 4 boxes to size, and one plane. No need for beveling, lofting, sweeping or any other process. Once the cabinet is done, simply chamfer the edges by about .25" to give it a nice non CG hewn-from-rock look. If you really need exact sizes, you still only need to create one cabinet. Then create as many rectangle splines as you need for each size, then using the copy and move vert method change those cabinets to the right size.

 

You can flip normals on selected faces only, you don't have to do the whole object.

 

Learn what Max can do, and you'll see it actually saves time. There's no need to be timid about learning the program. It also helps if you set your units in Max to the scale you want, say feet and inches. That way, you can model to the exact specs.

 

There isn't a cabinet around that can't be easily and quickly modeled in Max. There's no need for plugins or 3rd party software.

[erickdt]

My 2c:

 

I understand where you're coming from Scott. I often think that MAX might be a more easily adjustable modelling solution than modelling in another software but I personally appreciate the accuracy that comes with modeling in programs like AutoCAD and FormZ as opposed to the relatively inaccurate modeling of MAX. In manufacturing environments the importance of making your concept model in a format which can be used by the engineering department is paramount. That's where I'm coming from. I have to assume that designing kitchens is more or less similar. At some point, the cabinets visualized will have to be manufactured.

 

Also, I have to say that I have no problems importing AutoCAD files from either FormZ or AutoCAD. If you watch tutorials by Alex Roman and Peter Guthrie you see how vital programs like Sketchup are to their workflow. So I think to discount the importance of thrid party programs to MAX is misguided. Some programs are better for doing certain things than MAX, MAX is better at doing some things better than other programs. It all depends on what your objective is.

 

Anyway... To the problem at hand: If you check "render as 2 sided" in the render settings common panel it will solve your problem with normals. It will render correctly but it will not show up correctly in your viewport unless you manually flip them.

 

E