Dan Norfolk Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I read some thread to this effect, but I'm curious to hear from Canadian, Vancouverites in particular. I've finally gotten some rendering gig from an architect doing some housing project for a developer. It's a very painful experience with all the revisions, but since i'm building up my porfolio and contacts I took a punch in the gut. My problem is that they are asking for my layered psd and textured 3d file. the architect contends that since they gave me their sketchup model to work on, I should also give them my psd and 3d files for free. I've politely said that this is not part of the deliverables, but they insist telling that it's for their in-house record. What are you take on this? another thing is, how much revisions are they entitled to. I'm new in the game and probably bit more than I can chewed, I hope this experience is not the norm-otherwise this is no way to make a living. DTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil poppleton Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 We never give the 3d file or psd files....What next do they want our pc's aswell. The client will be paying for an image or animation, thats it unless they state in the initial contract, which would decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torwada_13 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 you should never give the 3d and psd files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notamondayfan Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 What does your contract state? If they really want your files, charge them accordingly. Or have a licence agreement where by when ever your models / psd files are used, they have to pay you before the images are published. The whole "in house record" sounds like bull to me, and they are planning on cutting you out of any future revisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postite Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Never give your source files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Sanchez Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 this depends on your contract. If your contract does not mention it, then set up a new agreement referring to what can and can't be done with your 3d files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Lino Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Depending if it's a good client maybe you could send something like a exploded model without textures because you cannot share "commercial textures". so You have to say that too and about PSD ....merging some layers, change the image to 8bit and share them. But it they are new clients and you don't have much business from them I won't send anything just invoices and oif tehy have the white model they need to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 When I employ freelancers I expect them to hand me the files on completion. I tell them this up-front and its because I often want to change bits and pieces / apply finishing touches or even completely re-work the job. I also get changes back from the client and its not efficient sending the work out to be done by the freelancer. However, I think my situation is different, Im not an end client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocratic3d Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 My impression is like every body else. I am asked to send source files some time. But my most of the jobs come from clients like Tom. I get usually 3rd hand jobs. Its depending on clients budget. if you need everything you must pay. and the profetional texture that are not free is not something that you can share with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Norfolk Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Thanks for the reply guys. We don't really have a contract, I was just asked for a quote, i replied with an email and some sample of work and i recieved the files the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noise Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 You should never give out your source files. If however, they insist and you feel that it might help future relationships - give them a psd with most of the files merged and reduce the size. With a 3D model - ungroup and merge everything and remove the textures - if you use a third party renderer, convert the textures back to one basic max texture and remove any lighting setup. With regard to the number of changes, you should only do minor changes, design changes are be chargable. You need to have a contract with all your terms and conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronll Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Just say "no" to giving out source files, unless it was negotiated prior. As to changes, when I submit the near-final review proof, I ask the client to check it for "errors and omissions", I don't ask them what "changes" they want. New or changed design info is a chargeable extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Another way of hadling a request for source files is to make out that you do it all the time: "Yeah sure no problem, we typically charge 2 x the job fee for release of files" is a good place to start. Separates the men from the boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 "Yeah sure no problem, we typically charge 2 x the job fee for release of files" I love it. And that's about a fair price too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Norfolk Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Another way of hadling a request for source files is to make out that you do it all the time: "Yeah sure no problem, we typically charge 2 x the job fee for release of files" is a good place to start. Separates the men from the boys. Wish I've known these 4 weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BVI Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I love it. And that's about a fair price too. Agreed. If the client can and possibly will produce iterative perspectives off the 3D asset then they should pay you for fees that you will lose as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Gray Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Thanks for the reply guys. We don't really have a contract, I was just asked for a quote, i replied with an email and some sample of work and i recieved the files the next day. You're getting solid advice here... The only thing I'd like to add is to use a contract, no matter what. It doesn't matter how much of a hurry they are in, you need to protect yourself as well as your client by having a solid understanding of what they'll bring to the table; what you'll produce for them in return; and how much you'll get paid (and when). Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vladin Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well, we, in our company, always share our source files (3D and PSD) with our clients, especially when asked to,but sometime we propose it to them before they ask, even if we know that they are going to pass them over to another viz company. Most of the time, this would be a company working on different views of the same project and we know that it would be a big time saver for the other visualizers as well as for our client. After all, we all work in a collaborative environment and we have no reasons not to share with our partners/clients and other parties involved on the project. We prefer moving on to the next exciting project, rather than spending days with boring revision and silly comments ("take out that guy", "move that tree", "change the sky" etc.). Life is too short for that. If you are open to the world, the world opens to you. I guess, that's what open source is all about. Regards, Vladin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well, we, in our company, always share our source files (3D and PSD) with our clients Do you build that into your fee? You must strip out all textures/lights etc no? You may be in breach of the copyright of others if you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 At first I read in awe, then I saw your signature :- D I guess it's fine in your case, since they won't be able to even come close to your quality of work. But anyway, I would never do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael J. Brown Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I recently had a client ask for the 3D file, to which I replied, (politely) "No. Sole possesion of that asset is retained by my company. Handing over my 3D model as-is would be like 'Soup Nazi' giving away the recipe for his lobster bisque. If, however you would like to enter into an agreement by which we continue to further develop the model to meet your needs during conceptual exploration (design development) then we would be glad to do so." They declined. This was the first work I had done with this client. And because I would like them to keep pushing work my way, I offered them the back-door solution of me providing them a naked model at a cost. They agreed, but with the stipulation that instead of a 'cost' they pay me back in future work. I agreed. The $$ I was going to charge for the naked model (sans texturing, lighting and 'secret-sauce' render settings) doesn't compare to what I stand to make from them on future contracts. This is a leep of faith I am willing to take with them Time will tell if I made the right call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Norfolk Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well, we, in our company, always share our source files (3D and PSD) with our clients, especially when asked to,but sometime we propose it to them before they ask, even if we know that they are going to pass them over to another viz company. Most of the time, this would be a company working on different views of the same project and we know that it would be a big time saver for the other visualizers as well as for our client. After all, we all work in a collaborative environment and we have no reasons not to share with our partners/clients and other parties involved on the project. We prefer moving on to the next exciting project, rather than spending days with boring revision and silly comments ("take out that guy", "move that tree", "change the sky" etc.). Life is too short for that. If you are open to the world, the world opens to you. I guess, that's what open source is all about. Regards, Vladin wow, would love to get my hands on some of those files.I and a lot others has definitely benefitted from the free sources in your website. can't thank you enough. but i can see that the majority here does not give out their source files freely. DTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Gray Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 There's an exception to every rule and one way Vladin differentiates his company from others is by being - for lack of a better description - "open source" (his words). This isn't a common business model in the arch vis world, so just keep that in mind. A close relative to our industry is professional photography... Consider picking up a copy of the book "Best Business Practices for Photographers" by John Harrington. Many of the 'best practices', and tips the author discusses are legitimate to our industry and transfer very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M V Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Yeah dude, no way, you are not getting my work files. If a client asks for a layered PSD up front, I charge them for that service and I setup the file the way they ask for it (people and plants on sep layers, etc.) I never send my my full comp file with adjustment layers and 'tricks'. No way, dont stand for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Architects ask for the source files all the time. Just say no. They'd love to move cams them self, at least they think they do. If they actually have the chance to tweak a camera, they usually are overwhelmed. Some clients think 3ds max is like Autocad, where you can just load any file and open the final layout. It's easy to explain that this is not possible with max files, given all (licensed) textures, 3rd party plugins, Vray and all that stuff a scene file depends on. For psd layers, I would ask, what layers? There are no layers in my renders, except people cutouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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