Jeff Mottle Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'm starting to plan the 3dawards again for 2012 and wanted to post a bit of information to solicit some feedback. The approx. Dates are as follows: Awards Ceremony July 4-7 Judging May 25-31 Call for Entries Closes May 19 Call for Entries Opens March 18 As there was so much feedback about the awards last year I'm going to break the categories into a few subcategories. I wanted to get some feedback this before I proceeded. In the past there has been three categories: Image, Film/Animation and Real-Time. There was one year where I had broken down into many other categories and the same images ended up winning in each category, so the categories suggested below will be set up such that you can only submit your image into ONE of the sub-categories. IMAGES - Commissioned Work - Non-Commissioned Work - Student FILM/ANIMATION - Commissioned Work - Non-Commissioned Work - Student REAL-TIME Currently we do not receive enough RT entries to break this into subcategories yet. Commissioned work means that someone has paid for or otherwise obtained your services to create the piece you are submitting. This type of work is likely to have been created by a professional for some sort of commercial project. This might be in the capacity of a visualization studio, or an in-house visualization artist done for an in-house project. Non-Commissioned work means work that you did for fun, experimental work, pieces you created for a portfolio etc and you were not paid for the work. Student work is created by students as part of a school project. If you are a student and were paid for the work you would have to submit to one of the other categories. The goal here is to address the concerns with time and constraints placed upon work done for someone else vs done to suit your own criteria. There are obviously a lot of things that fall through the cracks or fall into grey areas, so please let me know your thoughts and if you have any suggestions. Additional categories are not an option as it increases the load on judges, complicates the awards ceremony and segments the entries too much. Here are a few scenarios that I can think of that fall into a grey area. Please let me know your suggestions: 1) The work was originally commissioned and was later refined for a portfolio 2) Student work that was not commissioned, but was not done as part of a school project Ok, let me know your thoughts and suggestions. I have to nail this down within the next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I like the idea of the break downs. As for the grey area scenarios, The original, commissioned work would be elegable for commissioned work and the refined image for the non-commissioned, and the image can only be submitted in one or the other catagory, not both. Once you start refining for portfolios, the image moves away from being client driven to being personally driven. It will be interesting to see the comparison of the commissioned and non-commissioned work. There has been a huge trend towards the non-commissed work this past year, mainly because of the economy. One question, under which catagory would "Competition" images fall under. I am guessing commissioned. JHV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBetke Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I like it. Everyone here can imagine that commercial work usually has another working setting from points of time, money and clients input. So I really appreciate it. I want to participate since 2009/2010 now but this year I definitly will sent in stuff for real-time. I think the category will get spammed again with Lumion vids, hehe. Looking forward to the awards and the good work we will see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Norgren Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I would suggest that commissioned work be exclusive to paid work for a client (or in-house, for a professional purpose) , everything else would fall into non-commissioned. I would say that any work done by a student (for school or not) would fall into the student category. One question on that point may be what constitutes a student? is one class enough to qualify, or does one need to be working to a degree? -Nils N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I REALLY like the categories! Kudos Jeff. This is new awards structure is a critical reflection of professional practice. Simply giving the awards every year to work that was not created under the influence of a professional AEC project somehow lessens the contribution of the ArchViz consultant/artist. Many of the "pure fantasy" images are very good, sometimes great, but they are a different category of work created under real world constraints such as budget, timeline, client/government influence. I would also like to suggest a 4th category for competition images. The speed at which these must be created, and generally with very little design information, makes them their own beast. 5 images in 24 hrs .... GO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thank Steve, If I were to create another category for competition images, if there were insufficient submissions I think I'd have to add some language indicating that they would automatically be converted into the "Commissioned Work" category. The other reason I hesitate to add more categories is somewhat financial as well. The crystal award trophies I have made cost around $200 each. Already the number has now grown from 3 to 7. The FedEx shipping along costs me around $400 for 3 to get them to Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I can certainly understand you point Jeff. Just offering a critique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notamondayfan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Surely grouping all "images" into one group will just create a huge mix and not a very equal playing field. Last year the final nominations were dominated by conceptual images, which I personally feel isn't really what this industry is primarily about. If it were me I would look at splitting the images as - Exterior - Realistic commissioned Exterior - Realistic non-commissioned (personal and student) Exterior - Conceptual commissioned Exterior - Conceptual non-commissioned (personal and student) Interior - Realistic commissioned Interior - Realistic non-commissioned (personal and student) Interior - Conceptual commissioned Interior - Conceptual non-commissioned (personal and student) Animation also could be split similarly if enough entries were submitted. As real-time is still in it's infancy, I guess one group would suffice, however it could be split to maybe installations, web, mobile, etc. As for limiting the number of awards on the price of the trophies, that just seems daft. Last year there were over $50000 in prizes, surely someone would sponsor the trophies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 A few years ago we split the awards into interior, exterior and it did not work out that great, which is why I ended up going back to a single category. Mostly because it made the awards ceremony too long and repetitive. You might think that sounds "daft" too, but its certainly a reality I have to factor. We have 1 hour to do the awards ceremony at the live event as that is how the schedule works. If the categories were such that we could do them like the Oscars and only have some happen at the live event, I could look at that, but I don't think there is a clear break there right now. There is also the costs of flying the winners to the venue. It's not just the awards trophies. There is a budget unfortunately as much as that sounds daft, and it's not cheap flying people to the North of Spain. A ticket from North America costs around $1800 + hotel + meals + trophy. It's not an insignificant cost, and not one that a sponsor is likely to pick up. If possible I'd really like to try to keep the subcategories to 3, 4 at an absolute maximum. How does everyone else feel about breaking up categories of conceptual vs Realistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think breaking up the categories between conceptual and realistic is generally a good idea. My only concern is that in the future the 2 become further apart and separate entities in themselves. Last years awards were controversial but hey, that's good isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Considering we pay nothing for access to CGArchitect and there is no entry fee for the yearly contest, what we get each year is outstanding given the cost to produce it all. I'm not a fan of breaking things into conceptual versus real, at least to the extent of a previous poster. It seems every year when there is multiple categories, the number of overall submissions plummets and the whole contest falls flat on its ass. Or one category gets tons, and one gets 2 and people win by default. Maybe have a encompassing category for conceptual work? There's no way you'd fill all of the categories if each one had a conceptual and real component to them. It seems to be that conceptual work will be a lot like real time, very niche and very new, so not a lot of people will enter in it. It just seems that there was a rush of conceptual work because last year, that's what won pretty much every category. And really, that just happen to be due to the judges. Most, if not all, of the judges tended to be very conceptual artists themselves. Just watch, this year everyone will do conceptual works, then we'll all complain there is no traditional work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobyT Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Jeff, I believe your breakdown is very clean. Denoting them as commissioned and non gives us a fighting chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Categories are good as suggested !! Conceptual vs realistic...c'mon what is this, where would be the line which is what ? Architectural visualization is to illustrate the architecture in any way possible, no where was is ever defined that it had to be pure 3ds Max product. How could this even be considered art after all then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's not just the awards trophies. There is a budget unfortunately You need to stop shipping trophies to Spain. How does everyone else feel about breaking up categories of conceptual vs Realistic? No, leave it as you proposed. The two categories of commissioned and not may do that, anyway. I can see Steven's point about competitions, but in my mind those are commissioned--you are trying to get hired for a real project. Anything with a reward from outside, or the possibility of a reward (like working for most architects who MAY be in business long enough to pay you) can be looked at as real work. Thanks, Jeff, for keeping up the good work on these comps you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I can see Steven's point about competitions, but in my mind those are commissioned--you are trying to get hired for a real project. Anything with a reward from outside, or the possibility of a reward (like working for most architects who MAY be in business long enough to pay you) can be looked at as real work. Yeah, I like the idea of separating competitions just becuase the genre is generally different, but thinking back I'm not sure there are enough submissions. Usually competition work is confidential until well after the project is approved. Also, it opens the door of a category of "Under 8 hours, 2-3 days, 1 week etc." Competition work is certainly more loose due to time constraints, but I have seen work by the likes of Luxigon that could easily take on a more refined piece in overall aesthetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDVERTEX Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Jeff, briefly, stand up for your idea! It looks totaly fine to me. Short and clear. The major difference is now settled. Commercial or non-commercial work. This is the big difference. Normally commercial work done in extreme stress for 3 days or a week is helpless when it stands upon the 3 months spare time promo projects. Wish you successful 2012 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I think the break down of the categories are good they way they are. Simple, direct, and to the point. However I will go ahead and throw a slightly different idea into the mix.... Another interesting idea might be to do a speed event. It could happen at a pre-conference CGArchitect breakfast. Everyone that wanted to participate could bring a laptop. You would get 1 hour to complete an image in whatever way you like. At the end of the hour your image gets turned in. When the hour starts everyone would get a link to download a rough rendered image a 3d model, and a collection of entourage people/trees/etc... You could choose to adjust the lighting and render the image again or simply work only in Photoshop and simply composite your way to a better image. The winner would be awarded with the other CGArchitect awards but not get a crystal trophy. Maybe a bottle of wine or a gift certificate for a dinner in town. Something like this could happen at a pre-conference CGArchitect party also. People would be able to watch if they weren't participating. It would also easily serve as an icebreaker by giving people a topic to talk about. The only problem with doing it at a party where there are cocktails is that a lot of people will be stuck with their laptop when the hour was up. Which is not a good thing to have to keep track of while enjoying a beverage. I think the most popular one of these types of competitions is the Cut&Paste. http://www.cutandpaste.com/index.php/tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 .....anyone want to wager on what the major complaints will be in regards to the category winner will be? Last year lots of people were ticked off about the conceptual nature of the winning entries. I wonder what it will be this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasse1309 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Dear Jeff, dear Forum! I am glad to see the awards will go on and i am VERY eager to see what nature the entries will be this year. The winning entries have been very influential on the following years each time so - we will see I think your idea to split the awards off into different catergories are fine - and i can see the point in dividing it into commercial and non-commercial. (Even though the framework of client driven work differs a lot from time to time, no? there are long-term projects, short-term, friendly clients, annoying clients, overcritical clients, clients that see you as an artist with a professional knowledge, clients that see you as the guy who hits F10, clients from heaven, clients from hell... To be honest: working on personal projects with yourself as a client is hard as well: overcritial, working only late hours and on weekends, zero payment... ) But i have some problems with dividing that again into "real" and "conceptual". I don't think these should be criteria in arch-viz. our job is to communicate architecture and that is what an arch-viz award should honour - it should not become a render vs. painting thing. But i can see the difficulties. as a judge last year i found it very hard to compare stunning hyper-realistic renders with imagery that has obviously been created within a short time-frame but was highly emotive and of high quality as well. But this is something someone does see in the judging process. there is no photoreal and personal = good vs. conceptual and client-work = bad. each piece stands for itself and will be judged like that in such a contestual-process. the point is this: jeff, do whatever you like - a few categories are fine and i am looking forward to the awards. best regards Lasse Rode xoio Edited January 14, 2012 by lasse1309 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) I think the break down of the categories are good they way they are. Simple, direct, and to the point. However I will go ahead and throw a slightly different idea into the mix.... Another interesting idea might be to do a speed event. It could happen at a pre-conference CGArchitect breakfast. Everyone that wanted to participate could bring a laptop. You would get 1 hour to complete an image in whatever way you like. At the end of the hour your image gets turned in. When the hour starts everyone would get a link to download a rough rendered image a 3d model, and a collection of entourage people/trees/etc... You could choose to adjust the lighting and render the image again or simply work only in Photoshop and simply composite your way to a better image. The winner would be awarded with the other CGArchitect awards but not get a crystal trophy. Maybe a bottle of wine or a gift certificate for a dinner in town. Something like this could happen at a pre-conference CGArchitect party also. People would be able to watch if they weren't participating. It would also easily serve as an icebreaker by giving people a topic to talk about. The only problem with doing it at a party where there are cocktails is that a lot of people will be stuck with their laptop when the hour was up. Which is not a good thing to have to keep track of while enjoying a beverage. I think the most popular one of these types of competitions is the Cut&Paste. http://www.cutandpaste.com/index.php/tour That competition is so awesome !! Never heard of such "battle on stage" haha in design. Would be same awesome in Archviz. I'll for sure spread this idea at college. I would up to it on forum too, without any prizes, maybe some smaller recognition like "one-hour pro of the week" :- ). Edited January 14, 2012 by RyderSK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guca Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Hey Jeff, first of all thanks for your hard and great work making the awards. I like the categories suggested including the competition one, as you said if there isn't enough submission they should fall into commissioned work. if you do personal changes to a commissioned work it should goes directly to the non commercial category and you shouldn't be able to submit the same project to both categories. the way I see the categories breakdown is that commercial work is the main one and the non commercial somehow becoming more artistic/conceptual one as you have the freedom of pushing the boundaries of the daily work. I hope I can meet you all this year in coruna G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Thank Steve, If I were to create another category for competition images, if there were insufficient submissions I think I'd have to add some language indicating that they would automatically be converted into the "Commissioned Work" category. The other reason I hesitate to add more categories is somewhat financial as well. The crystal award trophies I have made cost around $200 each. Already the number has now grown from 3 to 7. The FedEx shipping along costs me around $400 for 3 to get them to Spain. Why you don't buy them in Spain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffranca Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 i like the contest preparing myself to participate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmanus Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Categories look good to me.... i think splitting it between commissioned and non-commissioned should cover anyone who wants to submit "conceptual" art... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Why you don't buy them in Spain? I can't speak/read Spanish. If you are willing to help find some place that could produce the awards for us in Spain let me know. I had entertained the thought of doing as you suggest a number of times, but had not been able to find any place online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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