keyboard cowboy Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 hi, i'm an arch. student, working on 3Dsmax 6. i'm looking for a modelling program with greater accuracy, kinda like a mix between autocadd and 3Dsmax. i've heard that rhino 3.v could be the answer...i would gladly accept any advice on the subject. thank u! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 hi, i'm an arch. student, working on 3Dsmax 6. i'm looking for a modelling program with greater accuracy, kinda like a mix between autocadd and 3Dsmax. i've heard that rhino 3.v could be the answer...i would gladly accept any advice on the subject. thank u! Rhino is great, very CAD-like, great company. FormZ is also a great, accurate, modeler, great company. I just find it weird in how it works, not at all intuitive. Rhino is less expensive, FZ has more preset modeling tasks. In truth, you cannot go wrong either way. If you are used to the workflow of MAX, you can also look at Cinema4D, which costs more than FormZ but much less than MAX, and is a modeler AND a great renderer. Lightwave users seem like a happy lot, though I've never used it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I am an architect, too. FormZ is my favorite, even though I am using Max all the time now. Nothing is faster to model architecture than FormZ (from my experience). It's OpenGL performance is lightyears above Max's, making the modeling go much faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cassil Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 The local architecture school here uses Form-Z because of it's CAD like controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Nelson Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 The local architecture school here uses Form-Z because of it's CAD like controls. I think all the schools use it because auto-des-sys gives it to them for free in hopes that graduates will continue to use Form-Z when they start their professional careers. People use what they are most comfortable with, so get them hooked early, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 The local architecture school here uses Form-Z because of it's CAD like controls. I would not call FormZ's controls CAD-like. Far from it. But Rhino's I would. In fact, I already did. FormZ is a great program, but to use it effectively you really have to drink the KoolAde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 maybe it is because i learned on formz first, but i find it very quick and intuitive to work with. although i have, and just did, hear others state otherwise. i am still trying to get myself to model sloppy after years of perfect accuracy. it is actually hard to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 i am still trying to get myself to model sloppy after years of perfect accuracy. it is actually hard to do. I know, same here. But the original question is about modeling with more accuracy, so that is why I suggested FZ and Rhino. Both, by the way, use actual, real-world units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mann Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 i am still trying to get myself to model sloppy after years of perfect accuracy. it is actually hard to do. I was taught to use AutoCAD by a Filipina I worked with in Hong Kong back in 1992. Her words of wisdom still ring true with regards to accuracy... "With CAD (and now 3D I guess - JM) its harder to get things wrong than it is to get them right" - Jocelyn Sanchez To this day I still can't say "plot" without it coming out in a Filipino accent. In terms of accuracy, I cant comment on the others but Rhino is very accurate and feels a bit like an AutoCAD clone in terms of interface/operation. That said, what problems are you having with Max and accuracy? I model to the millimeter and still seem to model more accurately than the CAD drawings that I get from the average architect. Do you really need super accurate? Once you get onto a building site, you will find accurate to be a rather flexible term. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchrender Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Form z is good.......... But as far as a company I don't think they are up to much. The upgrades for the last two, were average. They have holes all over the package. I's accurate, but at the end of the day you have to go else were to render, it's rendering is not that good, And I have used it for 6 years now, so i have enough experience to know, you really have to ush the thing to get what you want out of it. Interior rendering is out really, as far as renderzone is concerened. I also had the problem of switchng from v3.5 on a mac to pc a straight dongle swap. They would not do a straight swap. I had to upgrade, which cost all in 1000 euros for an upgrade, a complete ripoff, and they can not defend that. They have not ated their libraries for 4 years, there are next to no plug-ins if any , they are all promised and the ones that are out are ok, you can do as good in photoshop. saying that the modeling is good........and that's all it is. phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brolloks Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 I have to agree with Jim Mann about accuracy. Some of the drawings you get from architects are far from accurate. If you can model accurate up to a centimetre for a perspective then that is more than you need. I had to get used to that idea but it as long as you don't leave holes in the model where light can come through where it's not supposed to, then it's fine. It doesn't have to be accurate up to the millimeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Matthews Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Unfortunately, light leaks occur everywhere that the geometries are not properly connecting. My question to you is why not just use Cadd, unless you are nurb modeling? I have experience with FormZ as well. FormZ is a great modeler and all, but you have to no command works by itself. You have to have 3 to 4 buttons pressed (toolbars) for 1 command. I guess I am used to old school cad where you type in the commands. Therefore, toolbars don't do anything for me. Just my opinion. -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 I am an architect, too. FormZ is my favorite, even though I am using Max all the time now. Nothing is faster to model architecture than FormZ (from my experience). It's OpenGL performance is lightyears above Max's, making the modeling go much faster. Markus - you really need to check out Sketchup - it's a real architectural modeller. I've been learning tons over at www.pushpullbar.com - it's a forum of mostly architects with a few CG guys. They have some interesting design critiques as well (one of my favorite parts). Seriously take a look at sketchup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Xavier - thanks, just checked it out briefly, looks pretty cool. Just what I need! Another forum about architecture to rant and rave on! Man, the time I waste... Sketchup looks like it might be worht a try, right now I am contracted at a firm that is using only Max, so I am getting up to speed with the modeling, optimizing, texture baking, and other goodies. I still like FormZ for modeling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 right now I am contracted at a firm that is using only Max, so I am getting up to speed with the modeling, optimizing, texture baking, and other goodies. I still like FormZ for modeling! SU exports to dwg, dxf, vrml and 3ds, so it can integrate well with MAX. Ther truth is, C4D (and I'm sure MAX) have basically the same abilities, especially things like selecting an edge and dragging it and all geometry responds--but in SU its just SO EASY to do. C4D, and FormZ, have nice abilities like beveling (Cinema is much easier than FZ for that) that are not so easy in SU, so its not the magic solution. But it should work well with your other apps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 exactly EB - it well certainly supplement your power tool of choice (Max, Z, C4D, Autocad). What I really like about SU is that your get to "draw" in 3d which is the way I think - so it's really just an extension of my hand in 3d space - really cool. Once you get inference down there is nothing you can't do (except beveling like a mofo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Vestal Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 hi, i'm an arch. student, working on 3Dsmax 6. i'm looking for a modelling program with greater accuracy, kinda like a mix between autocadd and 3Dsmax. i've heard that rhino 3.v could be the answer...i would gladly accept any advice on the subject. thank u! So you get the picture Cowboy? You can tell by all these threads above here. It is all personal preference and what fits you best. The great thing is there are many choices out there. You can make a comfortable living with all. My advice, know your market. I am in a AutoDesk market. Therefore I own AutoCAD and Max. I have spent a lot of time to become efficient with these programs. My clients are happy, I am happy, therefore I make $. BTW. All industry standard programs are as accurate as the user. Your projects are as accurate as the data you input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da_RoCk Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Hello everyone... IMO, accuracy always comes down to the user. In our area, we use alot of ACAD, ACAD has become a norm in our area. Rhino is really good and so with the others, but i might be a little bias bcos its where i started modeling and for the past years i still find it very reliable especially the UCS commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Paske Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Well, if you really want to get technical, most 3d apps (FormZ, Max) are single precision programs, whereas AutoCad is a double precision program. That means most apps use 32 bit integers, AutoCad uses 64 bit integers to represent a floating point number. Human accuracy is a whole different situation (no matter how many decimal places of accuracy!) One area where people get bitten by AutoCad's precision and ability to handle immense numerical FP is when they bring a .dwg into a single precision program and straight lines are no longer straight (they look like the edge of a saw blade). This is because the drawing is located too far away from the origin point (0,0) in AutoCad, which can handle it, but single precision apps cannot. That's not meant as a jab to those apps - they have to do so many other things that AutoCad doesn't, so they can't devote as much muscle to just floating points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da_RoCk Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 hi calvino... wat do u mean by floating points? is it the same with the reference points? If so... other programs use different reference points such as grids or dummy objects. i gues that is where ACAD has its advantage. plus it can both process on absolute and relative coordinate systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 most 3d apps (FormZ, Max) are single precision programs, whereas AutoCad is a double precision program. That means most apps use 32 bit integers, AutoCad uses 64 bit integers to represent a floating point number. Datacad is now double, and boy, does it make a difference. There was a project I did a few years ago when it was still single, that was a new town in a canyon. The site was big enough that, even being VERY careful to put my center at 0,0,0 I could not place all the stuff in the site without the data beginning to fail. So I had to have several areas modeled in the middle, being offset by a certain amount. That way, i could move the by that amount into position in the rendering software--Lightscape. In most rendering apps you can model on a really BIG scale, like a city and it's region, or a small scale, like the insides of a cell phone, but not both in the same file. I know Rhino is double precision. I don't know if Cinema4D is, but if MAX/Viz aren't, I would bet not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I know pricing is usually a huge point of concern for most students. I think this is usually where FormZ wins its battles. They offer Joint Study leases for approx $100/yr ($200 with printed manuals). They dont offer the software free to schools, but is it equally as inexpensive as the student leases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Paske Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 hi calvino... wat do u mean by floating points? is it the same with the reference points? If so... other programs use different reference points such as grids or dummy objects. i gues that is where ACAD has its advantage. plus it can both process on absolute and relative coordinate systems. I'm not an expert with this stuff and someone who actually writes software could answer this more in depth, but here's how aI understand it. Floating points are the points in 3d space of your drawing, these are represented by the underlying "math" of your application, to varying levels of accuracy. Reference points, grids or dummy objects are all described by integers telling where an abject is in space. Think of it as the math underneath it all, and some apps use more decimal places to achieve more accuracy which becomes more important the larger the coordinate system is. Anyone else want to take a stab at helping Da Rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 someone who actually writes software could answer this more in depth While this is part of a sales pitch for a product, it is a very good explanation of this subject: http://www.rhino3d.com/accuracy.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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