NPRs in interactive demo.

[Hulag]

I was wondering, what do you people think about NPRs in interactive demos? I saw the rtre House demo in http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/index.cfm/ID/218794 and they use an NPR in it. It looks good (not TOO good) but they had to block your way to the NPR with the chairs, for me it's annoying. So, should NPRs be used in interactive demos or should full 3D models be used instead?

[Brian Cassil]

For me, using NPR is only usefull at the conceptual design phase of a project, in other words before any of the details are worked out. It helps soften the look of an unfinished CG product. That approach would hold just as true in an interactive type of display. Once all the details are in, I would rather show off the design in a more realistic (but still artistic) style.

[Hulag]

But don't you think having some kind of human figure in a demo helps the viewer have a better sense of scale of the whole building? Even if you position the viewer in the right position (say, 6 feet above de ground as you move in the model), it doesn't always look right unless you have some good references, and having people walking around helps with that I think.

[Richard McCarthy]

I think NPR is just a style that suits the presentation, and not necessary a requirement for good rendering or presentation. Some stuff are best left to be presented as realistic as possible some are not. There are arguments as to why NPR is better or worse. I personally think in architecture, in sketch-design phase, NPR is best suited for this purpose. Because the client would not be lock down to certain preconception of design if it's presented to them realistically, and having a lucid NPR look helps to generate more ideas, and give sense of vitality and the nature of change. It help foster the client to have more suggestion to your design.

 

There is also the questoin of presenting REALTIME NPR. It really takes some effort to get it right and most 3D application doesn't have real-time walkthrough in mind and certainly not NPR.

 

The best solution I have found is SketchUp, you can have almost interactive walkthrough with Sketchup and it's really easy to model in it too, so it wasn't much effort at all to present.

[Pablo Zurita]

I have to agree with Richard, but only when you make still frames. For interactive applications NPRs just look bad. Mostly because unless you somehow don't allow the user to look at the NPR in different angles, the NPRs just look bad as they are just projected on 2D, no real 3D. So I would go with a good 3D model that will still allow the user to get some sense of reality and scale of the whole building but without making it look too fake.

[Eric]

I'm confused. Are we discussing NPR (Non Photorealistic Rendering) or RPC (the people from Archvision)? He said they blocked the NPR with the chairs.

 

People add a great deal to a rendering, particularly a sense of scale. So, I believe they should be included. However, I don't think I'd suggest the 2D people inserted via a single plane, as they'd become flat planes viewed from the side. If you're actually doing predetermined camera paths, you may be able to get this to work depending on how you place the 2D people and how you setup the path. There are 3D "RPC" people though that can be viewed 360 degrees around them.

 

Eric

[Pablo Zurita]

I'm confused. Are we discussing NPR (Non Photorealistic Rendering) or RPC (the people from Archvision)? He said they blocked the NPR with the chairs.

 

People add a great deal to a rendering, particularly a sense of scale. So, I believe they should be included. However, I don't think I'd suggest the 2D people inserted via a single plane, as they'd become flat planes viewed from the side. If you're actually doing predetermined camera paths, you may be able to get this to work depending on how you place the 2D people and how you setup the path. There are 3D "RPC" people though that can be viewed 360 degrees around them.

 

Eric

From what Hulag said I thought it was RPCs so I didn't bother asking, people mix those quiet often so I thought it was just one of those times. BTW, I didn't know there were 3D RPCs for real-time presentation. I think that would be a bit too much current cards (swapping textures depending on the angle) but I guess they are find for raytraced renderers and videos.

[Eric]

Okay, I guess I was just attempting to clarify the abbreviation. We should be referring to them as something other than NPR, since NPR just refers to the style of rendering, not the type of people in the image.

 

As far as 3D RPC for realtime, I guess I need to clarify that as well. I have never done anything for realtime presentations. I have, however, used 3D rpc people (non-animated) for animations. I'm using them as we speak for a project I'm currently working on. I'm also using the 2D rpc people (the video people) for some interior views. So, I apologize for the confusion. In my attempt to clarify, I believe I may have brought about more confusion.

 

Eric

[tcorbett]

I have used some NPR people (sketch style) to populate a model for an animation that was pretty successful, but it certainly wasn't real time.

 

It raises an interesting concept though, one that I have not really seen implemented too much yet. Shockwave 3D has a good Toon Render, as well as some other, less successful NPR shaders, but a steep learning curve. Maybe something to experiment with further.

[Richard McCarthy]

There are 3D RPC people???... just exactly HOW 3D are they?

[Eric]

There are 3D RPC people???... just exactly HOW 3D are they?

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at, but you can see an example animation (low quality) where I have used them.

 

www.adcad.com

 

Enter the website, and then click on the animations page. Then take a look at Camille's.

[Richard McCarthy]

I usually thought RPC people are just 2D people with many different angles of stills built into them..but they are really just 2D people. If it's REALLY 3D, it has to be able to let' you put a guy and you view the person from top down view...