kenpimentel Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I've provided as much information as I can in my new blog posting: http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/ken/3ds_max_2013_announced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Potts Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Plug-in Compatibility Unfortunately, you can’t use 2012 plug-ins with 3ds Max 2013. Does it mean include Vray 1.5 & 2.0 plug in may won't work on 3Ds max 2013? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacrasher Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 They can announce but until they do a full test of it, it won't matter they cannot get the newer versions correct. everyone's been complaining about it on the autodesk website. Until they get rid of the bugs and the hangs why bother releasing a new version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchrender Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Does it mean include Vray 1.5 & 2.0 plug in may won't work on 3Ds max 2013? They said on the announcement, that plugins for 2012 will not work with 2013. Copied below from the release. "Plug-in Compatibility Unfortunately, you can’t use 2012 plug-ins with 3ds Max 2013. The SDK is different from prior releases due to the move to Unicode (finally) in this release. This is an example of a massive sw engineering project we had to undertake to deal with legacy code. This was by far, the largest investment in touching all the code in 3ds Max since 64b. Unfortunately, most of you don’t care that we’re now Unicode, but it will make life a lot easier for everyone working with 3ds Max on a foreign OS or are using one of the 5 language versions 3ds Max comes in and are trying to share data. Don't forget, you still have a "save as 2010" feature in this release to maintain data compatibility with older pipelines." So a real pain when we all use plugins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenpimentel Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 We know it is a pain, but we had to move our code into the modern age and Unicode was simply a requirement. We are now planning to lock down the SDK for as long as we can to bring back some plug-in stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickdt Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 A few comments/questions: Regarding the plugin questions: I notice in this "sneak peak" video ( ) you can see VRay properties etc. in the presenter's quad menus. If plugins are not currently compatible how can this be so? Also, to echoe what has been said by other posters: if the new version doesn't work with plugins it will sit on the shelf until a service pack is out that makes plugins functional. I have to say that this seems like a pretty major ommision from this release as many 3DS users make heavy use of 3rd party plugins to perform everyday functions. Will the numerous issues with backburner be addressed in this new version? These issues include backburner not running properly as a service and backburner returning incorrect gamma correction. Just so you know, here at my office and I believe many other offices it has become policy per my recommendation that we do not upgrade to any new version of 3DS until at least the first service pack is released. It's probably extremely premature but is there any planned date for the release of the first service pack? IOW: is there already a rough date that Autodesk has in mind to address the issues that are sure to arise during the first few months of rolling out this release? The cynic in me can't help but think that this newest version will be another half baked release from Autodesk that will not function properly until at least the first service pack. It seems to me that releasing a version that is not compatible with legacy plugins is a majopr oversite on Autodesk's part. I realize that making legacy plugins work with this new version is probably a time consuming task but I guess I figured that that's what we're paying for when we pay our subscription fee. I would rather have a fully baked, fully functional release every two years rather than one that only begins to really function correctly a month or two before the next release via. service packs and hotfixes. Just sayin'... E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenpimentel Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Erick, that's not how plug-ins work. We change our SDK roughly once every two years (though we did change it last year too). When we change our SDK, then people who create plug-ins have to update their plug-ins to work with our new release. It has always been this way, there is nothing we can do other than not ever change our SDK. If you don't ever want new features, then that would work fine. I think issues with BB were addressed. I don't remember the beta claiming we had problems when we issued the last beta drop. The first service pack will be sooner than later (within a month or so of the release). Our goal is to provide more frequent updates to those that can digest them. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickdt Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Hi Ken, Per the plugin discussion: Fair enough. As I said though, I think that for the majority of users, most of whom make heavy use of plugins, until those plugins work with the new release, regardless of which party needs to update them, this new version will remain on the shelf. The question still remains though: How is it that one of the presenters in the sneak peak videos has VRay properties etc. in his quad menu? In terms of BB: My issues with 2012 were certainly not addressed despite months of back and forth with Autodesk support. No matter what I do BB returns images with incorrect gamma and it doesn't work at all as a service. A quick google search shows that these issues are widespread amongst users of 2012. Hopefully this issue will be solved by 2013... E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenpimentel Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 re: vray We're working with all the major plug-in providers to get ready for 2013 release. You should see a Vray version soon after we ship. Other partners will be along soon too. We always make an extra effort to bring partners up to date when we break the SDK. Been doing it for 10 years. Doesn't always work, but we try. re: BB Not much to share w/you. I'm not familiar with the issues or the solutions. I'm not aware of issues with the 2013 release, I'm aware that it was a bumpy ride with 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I am hoping that the revit importing works as well as what is shown in the demo video. Jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenpimentel Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Did Vray 2011 work with 2012? ...I thought that was one of the plug-ins that always needed updated with a new version. Regardless Chaos does an excellent job supporting multiple versions. I am sure they will have their update ready within a couple of weeks of 2013 release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anejo Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Did Vray 2011 work with 2012? ...I thought that was one of the plug-ins that always needed updated with a new version. Regardless Chaos does an excellent job supporting multiple versions. I am sure they will have their update ready within a couple of weeks of 2013 release. If I recall correctly, the vray update was a week or less before it worked with max 2012. Which is another reason to wait before updating max on the release day. However, it's always entertaining to read the forum postings from the impatients ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I generally wait at least until the first major service pack is out before upgrading, if I upgrade at all. Just because Max comes out on a certain day certainly does not mean you MUST upgrade that day or else you fall behind in the industry. Its not the new iPhone. I'm willing to be the farm that the dev team at Chaos Group has had early access to Max 2013 in some form to be ready. Look, it's simple. Autodesk is warning you BEFORE hand that plug-ins will not work from 2012 to 2013. I'm sure they've warned all major plug-in developers as well to be ready for the launch. If you want to keep using your old plug ins, stay in 2012 for a bit. No big deal. It's not going to kill you to wait a bit. The cool studios won't make fun of you if Max is released at Midnight and by 12:01 you don't have the new version installed. In fact, you really shouldn't be blindly copying your old max content into the new version anyways. This can break too many things and cause needless complaints that the new version of max is broken. Where I used to work, we tested each custom (or major custom script) that we had on the new version of Max before we rolled it out to the rest of the team. We fixed what needed to be updated and rolled it out with very minimal issues. As far as Backburner issues, I've had none that were not fixable with any version. Most of the BB issues are due to users being impatient, have the wrong render inputs, and the general expectation of BB to be this great end all solution to rendering when it's clearly not meant to be one. BB only does what it's told. It has not become self aware and it's not trying to actively sabotage your renders. When a new video game system is released, does it sit on the shelves with no games? No! Major developers get early access and are able to create on launch content. This is no different. Put out your torches, take a deep breath, and just wait a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickdt Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Backburner has not worked as a service for me since MAX 2011. It has also returned images with incorrect gamma since that same release. I don't think that expecting BB to run as it has in previous versions is asking too much... For me MAX 2012 didn't function correctly until a few months ago. That was only after numerous calls to tech support and the installation of the two SAP which they sure don't make it easy to find or download. All I'm saying is I would rather a fully functional, fully stable release every two years than one that's buggy as all hell every year. Given the cost of the software I would expect that when new releases do come out they the perform as promised without an excessive amount of screwing around. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theqball Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Backburner has not worked as a service for me since MAX 2011. It has also returned images with incorrect gamma since that same release. I don't think that expecting BB to run as it has in previous versions is asking too much... For me MAX 2012 didn't function correctly until a few months ago. That was only after numerous calls to tech support and the installation of the two SAP which they sure don't make it easy to find or download. All I'm saying is I would rather a fully functional, fully stable release every two years than one that's buggy as all hell every year. Given the cost of the software I would expect that when new releases do come out they the perform as promised without an excessive amount of screwing around. E The gamma issues with network rendering I don't think were really a problem of BB, but I know this was worked on in 2013 along with the gamma issues with certain outputs like png. Both should be resolved now. There are over 500 legacy bug fixes in the 2013 release, the largest that I can remember, so look for a lot of little annoying things like this to be cleaned up. Not all of them but we did our best to find the ones users in general considered important. We will continue to issue product updates for the 2012 release and potentially older ones. The first should be available on the FCS day of 2013 to enable the save to previous feature to work with 2013 files saved to 2012. There are other fixes in this update with more details to come soon, we are just putting the final wraps on it next week. 2013 does save to previous for 2012, 2011, and 2010 now. There likely will be a product update for 2011 and 2010 to better support this also. From this point forward save to previous will only support 3 versions back, therefore this will be the last release that saves to the 2010 format. Edited March 31, 2012 by theqball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theqball Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Did Vray 2011 work with 2012? ...I thought that was one of the plug-ins that always needed updated with a new version. Regardless Chaos does an excellent job supporting multiple versions. I am sure they will have their update ready within a couple of weeks of 2013 release. We work very closely with Chaos and other partners to make sure the transition to the new release is as smooth as possible. This year for the first time ever we had partners posting their beta builds to our beta program. This is why you see some of their UI in the sneak peeks. 80% of our beta customers said they were doing production testing with the beta and having partners like Chaos so closely involved was a big part of why they were able to do this. I can't speak to the Chaos roadmap directly but I imagine if you ask vlado or others there they might tell you when to expect an update from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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