CG Visualization

[jasonfarwell]

Hi, I am a San Francisco Bay Area student currently interested in animation and modeling; I invest a lot of my time drawing, and using software such as Maya, Blender & ZBrush. I'm in need of help from a CG community such as this in answering some of my questions about CG visualization.

 

Question One: If I wanted to go into ArchViz, which school would be my best option for this? A traditional school or an art school? ... which specific schools (I'm not geographically or economically restrained)? Further elaboration: Is it better to major in architecture @ a traditional school and take 3DModeling+Animation on the side, or rather, is it better to major in 3DModeling+Animation @ an art school and take architecture on the side?

 

Question Two: Likewise, if I wanted to go into scientific visualization, which school would be my best option for this? A traditional school or an art school? ... which specific schools? Further elaboration: Is it better to major in science @ a traditional school and take 3DModeling+Animation on the side, or rather, is it better to major in 3DModeling+Animation @ an art school and take science on the side?

 

Question Three: Are there any books or pre-college programs that could educate me about either of these disciplines?

 

Question Four: Are there any other forums or blogs that could help me with this type of information? I realize that there's cgarchitect... anywhere else?

 

Thank & I appreciate any help or responses given!

[RyderSK]

If I was from USA, I would never pay for school if you intend to work in Archviz (or even general 3D world). I would just start with archviz directly, it's so easy these days. Software is easy, great tutorials are lying on the floor.

 

If you were from anywhere else, and wouldn't need to pay for school, then I would go for architecture if it's Archviz you're after. I've seen very few people who are good in archviz and aren't architecture students/graduates (but those are usually big architecture and design fans, like Bertrand for instance) because they simply don't understand architecture. Then they can make nice kitsch visualizations of beautiful american suburb houses in faux-antique/victorican/whatever ugly style.

 

Art schools are good too, but not if all you intend to do is Archviz. I also think they're wasted time unless you're really talented. In my country they take like 2-3 people out of few hundreds sometimes. From what I know though...anyone can study anything in USA, you're just paying yourself into debt. If you're not talented artist from heart in beginning, art school won't make you one.

 

Really, don't dream and plan too much. You propably have lot of free time. Just start doing archiviz right now. It really can be learned almost overnight in these days. Then you can see how you feel about this job.

 

I honestly think it's incredible job esp. if you're freelancer. You're free, you make very decent money, most of the time it's very enjoyable type of work, very creative, very rewarding.

 

Cgsociety is the best website to go for learning all about 3D and bussiness aspect

Ronen Bekerman's blog is the best place for pure archviz. You can go over all the "making of"s in one week and you know 99perc. of the secrets Archviz is made out of

Edited April 18, 2012 by RyderSK

[Devin Johnston]

I don't agree if you want to make a career out of Arch Viz you need to understand the language of both Architecture and CG. Juraj is right that you can teach yourself CG but if you don't have an understanding of buildings you're going to find it very hard to talk to the very people you're looking at to give you work. If you want to go into Arch Viz presumably you like architecture so you might want to consider getting a Industrial design degree or finding an Architecture school that offers some kind of CG degree.

[RyderSK]

I don't agree if you want to make a career out of Arch Viz you need to understand the language of both Architecture and CG. Juraj is right that you can teach yourself CG but if you don't have an understanding of buildings you're going to find it very hard to talk to the very people you're looking at to give you work. If you want to go into Arch Viz presumably you like architecture so you might want to consider getting a Industrial design degree or finding an Architecture school that offers some kind of CG degree.

 

I am former architecture student. Architecture is hard and complex. And in USA, pretty expensive degree too. Unless he wants to ALSO be architect at some point, it's not worth going into it. Architecture study is time-demanding, there isn't time for learning 3D properly.

[Devin Johnston]

I have a degree in Architecture and I can't imagine doing this job without that background. I didn't suggest he get a full Architecture degree though that's why I said Industrial design, the point was he needs some understand of Architecture to do Arch Viz successfully. As for the cost any degree is going to be expensive but if you stay with a State school the cost can be reasonable.

[RyderSK]

I think you're overstating the importance of the degree FOR Archviz. Architecture degree is awesome and worth pursuing, but only if you're really dedicated towards it. How is industrial degree useful for archiviz on other hand ? To learn reading cad plans ? That can be done in single sitting with either architect.

 

The architecture language can be easily learned outside of school. Bertrand Benoit is a prime example. All you need is love for architecture and the actual knowledge can be easily learn from books. I know many people at faculty who can't do that.

 

He would be much better of buying a really nice camera and going for trip to some nice Kahn's classics.

 

For all I care, he can and should go to college. But why not start with archviz right now ? It's not hard to begin and it's not hard to get some paid work either. He can try and see before making tough college decision on a single dream of doing Archviz. He might not even like the nature of the job, then be stuck at college he doesn't like either, and waste money,time...so forth.

[Devin Johnston]

I don't think educating yourself on your intended subject is a waste of time, and the proper school can do that much more effectively than trying to figure it out for yourself. He could buy a camera and some software and start educating himself on two subjects he knows nothing about but who's to say he'll be better off doing that over attending a college where he can get some guidance. In the business world especially in the US many companies won't even consider you without a degree unless he has a knock out portfolio no one will even look at him. He can go either way but in my opinion he'll be better of in the long run with a good education.

[Scott Schroeder]

I have a masters degree in CG with a specialization in Arch Viz and I can't imagine being without it. You can tell, 100% without a shadow of a doubt, the co-workers who do not have any sort of college foundation. Not necessarily in their skills (however most seriously lack them), but their overall work ethic, organization, the ability to research and develop new ideas and troubleshoot and dealing with stress. Don't forget, college teaches you so much more than just book knowledge. And for not using your degree, so what? I know plenty of people who work in completely different fields. But what got them the job was the college degree. What mattered the most, wasn't the title of the program but that they received a degree from a top 50 school. The degree itself holds weight.

 

For the OP, I'd go to a 4 year University. Forget the art schools, especially that crock of a program that the AI offers. Not having a degree is pretty much starting yourself out to be nothing more than just a pixel pushing cog in the giant wheel. You think architecture school is expensive? Have you priced out the AI or the Gnomon School? In fact, with the recent lawsuit against those for-profit schools (AI, Gnomon, ITT Tech) good luck ever getting a student loan for those.

 

Most schools, like my school, the focus was on CG learning programs like Max, Revit, etc. But there was also a heavy focus on all areas related to arch viz from architecture, to building the actual structures, and all the way to civil engineering.

 

From the Bay Area, I'd look into Berkley. They have a very extensive architecture program as well as a CG program. Ditto on Stanford. Ditto on many of the UC schools if you can't get into one of the larger schools. USC has a great CG program, in fact one of the best. Any of the Pac-10(12) schools have some sort of CG program. Most Division-1 schools have CG programs now.

 

A tip, forget about worrying about the debt. You'll pay it off. The difference between starting out at 40 cents an hour versus 40 dollars an hour is your degree. Yeah, you can start overnight. But you'll get the crap jobs, crap pay, crap clients, and crap work. You will have no history, no real working skills, no knowledge of clients, no knowledge of billing, and the most important you'll not understand contracts. You'll be competing with the cents on the hour, forget quality, give me a screen cap render studios overseas.

 

Don't stick yourself in a rut because you lack a degree. Having a degree and not really using it is far less of a burden that not having the degree and forever being stuck in low-rent jobs and being passed over for promotion.

[Corey Beaulieu]

Juraj,

 

I think you are discounting how much you intuit about this profession from your own experience in architecture school. Not to mention that education can hardly be considered a waste. An example of Bertrand Benoit is a good one-off, but there is a reason why his work is special. He has an exceptional eye for the art and I wouldn't expect just anyone to be able to equal him. Some will and many will not. With this, I simply mean to say that it's not as simple as learning how things work.

 

Jason,

 

Architecture school in the US comes in 2 forms: accredited and un-accredited. The difference program-wise is usually in the specificity of the Gen-eds and the depth of the more pragmatic pieces of architecture like structures and Material and Methods. The more notable difference is that an accredited program can lead directly to a license while a non-accredited program will lead to the need for a masters in architecture. If you are not wanting to go into architecture then perhaps a non-accredited program with a focus on design computing could be a great way to go.

 

I bring this up because I believe that architecture school can help you on so many levels in the Arch-Viz world. One of the most disappointing things that I personally see on these forums are the posts of images that show great proficiency of how it works, but little to no knowledge of scale or light. This is the core of architecture. Things look real when the materials are accurate and the scale is spot on and Architecture school will provide a very solid understanding of both of these things as well as give you bit of artistic prowess to boot.

 

Make your own decision as to how you go about it, but Juraj is right, get started now and then go from there. I am currently working as an Arch-Viz Artist while going to school for architecture. One hand definitely washes the other and I enjoy both experiences much more for getting to do so.

 

I hope this helps.

[eagle_ear]

Architecture study is time-demanding, there isn't time for learning 3D properly.

True. The time is taken up with design, other classwork, leaving you maybe a week or so to focus on rendering/3D/illustration, but

if you get through it, architects recognize.

[John Dollus]

If you intend to stay in the US and are not independently wealthy, then you will need a degree to navigate life's waters. That said, a degree in architecture was recently named as one of the worst degree programs:

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/blogs/mba_admissions/archives/2012/01/which_college_major_has_the_worst_unemployment.html

 

Scientific visualization could be a great route for you. I'd suggest a Science degree in biology coupled with a strong portfolio of life drawing exercises concentrating on anatomy. Zbrush could really come in handy for these as well. With that background, you could easily find yourself in either healthcare or forensic positions.

[Scott Schroeder]

A simple task. Go to the AIA (American Institute of Architects) career center, http://careercenter.aia.org/, and find a job that doesn't at least require a bachelors degree.

 

The math typically works out to this. Bachelors degree is required but if you have more than 7 years real world experience, that will roughly equal that bachelors degree. But even then, you may be required to take schooling once hired.

[RyderSK]

I have a masters degree in CG with a specialization in Arch Viz and I can't imagine being without it. You can tell, 100% without a shadow of a doubt, the co-workers who do not have any sort of college foundation. Not necessarily in their skills (however most seriously lack them), but their overall work ethic, organization, the ability to research and develop new ideas and troubleshoot and dealing with stress. Don't forget, college teaches you so much more than just book knowledge. And for not using your degree, so what? I know plenty of people who work in completely different fields. But what got them the job was the college degree. What mattered the most, wasn't the title of the program but that they received a degree from a top 50 school. The degree itself holds weight.

 

For the OP, I'd go to a 4 year University. Forget the art schools, especially that crock of a program that the AI offers. Not having a degree is pretty much starting yourself out to be nothing more than just a pixel pushing cog in the giant wheel. You think architecture school is expensive? Have you priced out the AI or the Gnomon School? In fact, with the recent lawsuit against those for-profit schools (AI, Gnomon, ITT Tech) good luck ever getting a student loan for those.

 

Most schools, like my school, the focus was on CG learning programs like Max, Revit, etc. But there was also a heavy focus on all areas related to arch viz from architecture, to building the actual structures, and all the way to civil engineering.

 

From the Bay Area, I'd look into Berkley. They have a very extensive architecture program as well as a CG program. Ditto on Stanford. Ditto on many of the UC schools if you can't get into one of the larger schools. USC has a great CG program, in fact one of the best. Any of the Pac-10(12) schools have some sort of CG program. Most Division-1 schools have CG programs now.

 

A tip, forget about worrying about the debt. You'll pay it off. The difference between starting out at 40 cents an hour versus 40 dollars an hour is your degree. Yeah, you can start overnight. But you'll get the crap jobs, crap pay, crap clients, and crap work. You will have no history, no real working skills, no knowledge of clients, no knowledge of billing, and the most important you'll not understand contracts. You'll be competing with the cents on the hour, forget quality, give me a screen cap render studios overseas.

 

Don't stick yourself in a rut because you lack a degree. Having a degree and not really using it is far less of a burden that not having the degree and forever being stuck in low-rent jobs and being passed over for promotion.

 

This is absolutely biased off the hook. I don't even have my bachelor yet, yet I am was asked to join companies like DICE and so forth. NEVER was I asked how old I am or whether do I have degree. All that mattered was skillset and attitude. Not paper from "top 50 USA school".

 

Archiviz IS not medicine, it's not even architecture. It's simple mixture of art and craftmanship intended to showcase and sell Architecture.

I am seriously offended by your made-up arguments, and comparison to non-degree colegues's work. Please, show me your awesome portfolio that you created with your awesome top50 school degree. I want to be left in awe. Surely you must have gathered incredible knowledge and work ethic as you mention that compared to poor souls who didn't attend such institution.

 

You guys turned this is into degree/non-degree for life discussion. I strongly stand that you don't need degree for Archviz or 3D at all. I am not arguing against college.

 

 

"not having the degree and forever being stuck in low-rent jobs and being passed over for promotion" This, is total non-sense. Again, it's generalisation not applying to Archviz in any sense. Apart from that, most people are freelancing, and are more than well-off. Including me, with 40cent per hour...

[Devin Johnston]

I don't think Scott was claiming that in every case you must get a degree in order to be successful. I'm sure there are cases where people with no degree who were self taught became successful but I'd argue that these people are rare and their success wasn't just handed to them they had to work hard for it. I would also say that you have a better chance at success if you have some formal education backing you up, while this is not always true it is more often than not the case.

[RyderSK]

I don't think Scott was claiming that in every case you must get a degree in order to be successful. I'm sure there are cases where people with no degree who were self taught became successful but I'd argue that these people are rare and their success wasn't just handed to them they had to work hard for it. I would also say that you have a better chance at success if you have some formal education backing you up, while this is not always true it is more often than not the case.

 

Thank you Devin, this of course makes sense.

 

I want to add up something maybe.... I'll go back to work instead. I wish everyone success with their awesome degrees. I will finish my awesome degree, and see if it will multiply my success tenfold as mentioned. Don't want to be looser for life, waiting for promotion.

[jasonfarwell]

Thanks everybody. I really appreciate the discussion towards the topic. Just a couple further questions:

 

1) If I, say, want to go to a school for CG/3d visualization, which specific schools would you recommend? Both traditional and art schools. Like I said, I'm not geographically or economically restrained, but I'd prefer somewhere in the U.S. or California.

 

2) Where could I find out more about scientific visualization? Such as people or communities I could contact that could help me learn more about that discipline & how to get into it? I understand that this forum isn't exactly the right place to ask this question, but if anybody has some information I'd greatly appreciate it!

Edited April 18, 2012 by jasonfarwell

[John Dollus]

http://vvvvvv.viz.tamu.edu/

http://calarts.edu/

[Scott Schroeder]

If you Google terms like "School name" Visualization, you can usually see if they have a program.

 

USC's Viz lab: http://www.usc.edu/hpcc/about/datavis.php

 

Berkeley's: http://vis.berkeley.edu/

 

Stanford's: http://vis.stanford.edu/