Vray proxies scatter without a plugin

[Boris Horosavin]

Hi,

I'm tired of having to update or change various plugins with each new version of Vray or Max. Specifically, I'm talking about Vray Scatter or Forest Pack or whatever software we use to create forest, grass, foliage or simply pile up tons of Vray Proxies. Therefore a question: Is there a stable, simple and free plugin of this sort that could work with newer versions of Max/Vray? Also, can one use standard Scatter under Compound Objects in 3DS Max for this purpose? Is it stable and as efficient as, for example, Vray scatter which can easily produce hundreds of thousands of objects.

Maybe it's not strictly Vray question but it's close enough. Thanks.

[Corey Beaulieu]

I have always found the Object Paint Tool from the Graphite Modelling Tools to be sufficient. You can randomize scale, rotation, and jitter, as well as, define a spacing; Paint on surface, on Scene, or on Grid. The tool accepts proxies and can even randomize from a selection of proxies.

 

Pretty great!

[Boris Horosavin]

Thanks for the reply. I gotta confess I skip Graphite totally, but I will try it. There was a macro called Painter (or maybe Advanced Painter?) that that did something similar but simply wasn't suitable for stuff like large scale forests, consisted of thousand of trees, or vast grass surfaces. I'll check it out anyway.

Also I'm gonna do "stress test" on standard Scatter - I will try to multiply, let's say 10000 high-poly, fully textured Vray Proxies to see how it reacts and will come back with results to conclude this topic.

[Tommy L]

Thanks for the reply. I gotta confess I skip Graphite totally, but I will try it. There was a macro called Painter (or maybe Advanced Painter?) that that did something similar but simply wasn't suitable for stuff like large scale forests, consisted of thousand of trees, or vast grass surfaces. I'll check it out anyway.

Also I'm gonna do "stress test" on standard Scatter - I will try to multiply, let's say 10000 high-poly, fully textured Vray Proxies to see how it reacts and will come back with results to conclude this topic.

I look forward to reading your results.

[MikeKane]

I recently found that using a Max particle system is a really good way to scatter, you can randomise and you have a degree of collision avoidance by using the particle spacing option in Particle View. The key is a great script generously provided on this site: http://www.charleycarlat.com You just use the particle system to set up as many points as you need on your surface, then select the objects you want to scatter (proxies work as well), run the script and select your particle system icon.

[Boris Horosavin]

Thanks for the advice Mike. I have heard of this method from a highly competent guy I was collaborating with once and I will try it as soon as possible.

As for my test... well it was total fiasco. First of all standard 3ds max Scatter tool doesn't even recognize anything about Vray proxies above their basic displayed geometry. For example, I had accidentally set Vray proxy object to be displayed as "bounding box" in viewport and Scatter just reproduced boxes in render instead of full object geometry. But the real problem occurred when I wanted to make greater number of copies. I had a patch of grass converted into Vray proxy and I wanted to multiply it by 10000 with Scatter and apply it to a terrain surface. Alas, Scatter was utterly useless for this task; Rendering process freeze on very begging, with the message "transforming vertices...". It seemed as if CPU was working but after 15 minutes it was obvious that Max had bugged out completely. So much for that idea.

[Tommy L]

hmmm. strange, I seem to remember using scatter (multiscatter version became incompatible with Vray 2.0 I think was the reason) to make hedges. I dont recall any problems. I used to use Multiscatter alot, its such a great tool. I am now making a article system for controling fluids so Ill try subbing in some vray proxies instead of blobmesh. Ill post results when I have them.

[Boris Horosavin]

Thanks Tom, I hope you will have more luck than I did. If you should have time and chance please try pressing Scatter with as much Proxy copies as you can, I'm eager to hear the results. |Ah, by the way, I forgot to mention that I'm still on 3dsMax 2010/Vray 1.5 SP4. Maybe that could have played some part?

[MikeKane]

regarding the particle flow approach, there's a nice, straightforward tutorial on Evermotion, here: http://www.evermotion.org/tutorials/show/7954/particleflow-treeproxies

[Boris Horosavin]

Hi Mike, I just viewed the tutorial and it seems this script + particles should do the job. Just hope it will work with 10000+ objects as smooth as shown. Thanks again.

[dmv79]

Maybe something I did wrong. But in my experience scattering complex objects using pflow makes things very unstable.

[Tommy L]

Maybe something I did wrong. But in my experience scattering complex objects using pflow makes things very unstable.

 

But a proxy in itself is not a complex object, just a placeholder.

[dmv79]

True. But pflow doesn't accept vray proxies. I mean, it loads and scatters them... but when you render they will render as if set to "preview from file" on the proxy parameters. And on large amounts things will become unstable anyways.

[Boris Horosavin]

True. But pflow doesn't accept vray proxies. I mean, it loads and scatters them... but when you render they will render as if set to "preview from file" on the proxy parameters. And on large amounts things will become unstable anyways.

Now, that's exactly what I am confused about. It's not a problem to multiply a dozen or even hundred of Proxy objects (even with standard Scatter). But what happens if you want to create, for example, a large scale forest consisted of 100000 or more trees. If this tool just copies Vray Proxy as standard geometry (instead as a real proxy) than at some scale problem will definitely occur.

[dmv79]

I may be getting over my head, but my opinion is that the technology in these softwares has it's limitations... Maybe GPU assistance or point cached data will gradually change things (they have their limitations too). Until then I will break up my scenes once I get arround the instancing limit. And keep my faith in the miracle of scattering plugins... It's a pain but I can do now way more than back in the days.

[Boris Horosavin]

Listen, I usually used Vray Scatter plugin and it was worth every penny, since it was simple, had detailed placement and density options and I was able to multiply up to million objects - no crashing, no stability issues whatsoever (

). But, I grew tired of having always to re-acquire it with every new version of Max or Vray. It is a really small and, I suppose, relatively simple plugin, I just don't understand why Autodesk or Chaos Group didn't already implement something similar to their basic applications.

[dmv79]

Heard and agreed. But there are so many features that they could bundle with the software and don't. Including pflow resources. All very simple too. Every time you need something specific, they will sell it apart from the "basic" software. What I wished is that they stopped releasing upgrades every 6 months...