TheAllusionisst Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Hey all, I have been planning on buying 3D Studio VIZ (Autodesk VIZ)for architectural visualization purposes, basically because it is targeted at that market and has specific routines for it and a large part to get access to Archvisions RPC. Then I was going to buy Maya Complete for my character animation work. Now Archvision seems to have a plugin for Maya Complete (I really like Maya's work flow) For a little while now VIZ has flown under the banner of the parent company Autodesk and not Discreet, I imagine since they have incorporated a VIZ renderer into ADT now that it makes some sense, but it still confuses me a little. Now I read that MAX is going after the Architectural market, Hmmm character modeling and architectural visualization tools in one package, no MAX isn't what I want for that, I tell myself. I am getting a little confused and was wondering what is going on in the MAX vs. VIZ arena? Is VIZ a viable investment or does AutoDesk have plans to make it lite and incorporate it in ADT and REVIT and focus on MAX since they charge so much more for it? Anyone in the loop know what is going on and what the next few years holds for the two brothers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Knourek Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Im sure someone will comment if Im wrong but as far as I understand it, viz is basically a lite version of 3dsmax. When viz came out there were actually architectural objects taken out of max and used for viz only, like doors and windows were originaly in 3dsmax but when viz came out they got pulled from max literally. But rumors are that autodesk is discontinuing viz and going to force you to buy 3dsmax instead. Anyway you are probably better off going with either 3dsmax or Maya, which ever you are more used to... Hope that helps a little, -dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAllusionisst Posted August 19, 2003 Author Share Posted August 19, 2003 Thanks, that is what I was wondering. Hope to hear more than gossip, I personally think MAX is over priced so I thought VIZ was a decent option that allowed good AutoCad compatibility, guess I might just go by Maya? Does anyone have any experience with RPC and Maya, does it have all the whistles and bells that the MAX/VIZ versions do? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Does anyone have any experience with RPC and Maya, does it have all the whistles and bells that the MAX/VIZ versions do? Yes I believe it does and more. I saw a demo of it at the ArchVision booth and I believe they hae also fixed the instancing problem. I would email the guys at ArchVision to see if there is anything else different, but from what I saw they look identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnuhong Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 To me it's looks like more 'strategy' than 'sibling fighting' Originally posted by David Knourek: Im sure someone will comment if Im wrong but as far as I understand it, viz is basically a lite version of 3dsmax. When viz came out there were actually architectural objects taken out of max and used for viz only, like doors and windows were originaly in 3dsmax but when viz came out they got pulled from max literally. But rumors are that autodesk is discontinuing viz and going to force you to buy 3dsmax instead. Anyway you are probably better off going with either 3dsmax or Maya, which ever you are more used to... Hope that helps a little, -dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmoron13 Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by TheAllusionist: ...I personally think MAX is over priced so ...? Thanks again. Considering that a) you're using autocad, and b) you're looking at getting maya, why do you see 3ds max as overpriced? I feel it IS overpriced, but I think the whole market is caught in a catch 22 in that they (manufacturers) keep upping the prices in response to diminishing returns based on increased piracy, when the piracy is mainly a result of high prices. In any case, does maya have dwg import abilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAllusionisst Posted August 19, 2003 Author Share Posted August 19, 2003 Considering that a) you're using autocad, and b) you're looking at getting maya, why do you see 3ds max as overpriced? I feel it IS overpriced, but I think the whole market is caught in a catch 22 in that they (manufacturers) keep upping the prices in response to diminishing returns based on increased piracy, when the piracy is mainly a result of high prices. I feel MAX is over priced (Not trying to start a flame war, just my opinion) in relationship to the other programs like Maya and SoftImage who offer a superior (subjective) product for less. I have played with the demos and I personally think I would prefer the full C4D studio over Max at more than half the cost. You can argue almost any point and if you love MAX you are going to have a different view than I have, can't help that. I have actually used TrueSpace for years and think it offers a great bang for the buck, but I wouldn't argue when someone says Lightwave is a superior program. I think Lightwave has an awesome render engine, I just don't like the interface. Anyway, it looks to me that purchasing VIZ may be an unwise investment, I would be better off purchasing Maya Complete and the ArchVision package. Thanks for the honest answers and I must say, so far you guys seem less flammable than the other forums! LOL [ August 19, 2003, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: TheAllusionist ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmoron13 Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 IN NO WAY AM I A DIEHARD MAX USER...i was in the same boat as you just a year ago, and just remember that when you price all the features, none of them are overpriced. 3ds max (in my naive opinion) is comparable to Maya Unlimited, and c4d comes in pieces, so the price skyrockets once you add up features to make it comparable. For my firm, we went with 3ds max simply because autocad + viz= more than 3ds max and then you still don't have animation capabilites, whereas at the time, maya was more expensive, and I didn't know any other packages... then again, I'm starting the maya PLE as soon as it's downloadable, so I'm not "a diehard max user"...just playing devil's advocate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAllusionisst Posted August 19, 2003 Author Share Posted August 19, 2003 Playing devils advocate can be fun, I do it all the time! LOL They are all good points, I would argue that all of C4D components add up to about what VIZ cost, making MAX a much larger cost. I am not saying that the full blown version of C4D is as much software as MAX, but it is close. Anyway, it looks like VIZ isn't the solution I thought it was, boy glad I stop by CGarchitect every couple of days and read the articles. Thanks Jeff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Knourek Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 As with me these days when Im looking at new software I just get demos of all the ones Im looking at and try them out to see which one I like the most, and to get a feel of the company behind the software support wise. And if I cant get a demo there is no way that Ill buy the software or even consider it as Ive been burnt too many times in the past. -dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmoron13 Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I'll say this for maxon (and c4d): they're support or is that sales is impressive. I downloaded the c4d demo (or free sle?) and they actually called me up the next day to see if I had any questions and if I liked it. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to actually install the program and try it out, but none the less, impressive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAllusionisst Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 Well all the programs mentioned are really good, I will have to get all the latest demos and see which program seems to match my workflow and easily produce the best renderings. The problem is that I can't spend the time on each program to make the comparisons fair. Just a little bummed since I thought I knew what the logical choice was, now it looks like a dead end choice. I think MAX/VIZ are the only ones that have a native DWG importer unless you count something like Accurender that works inside of AutoCAD. Getting reliable imports is of major concern, would like to avoid triangulation. Anybody have suggestions on what software they use and what method/format they use for bringing in their models from CAD, or do most of you model inside the package? Thanks Again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmoron13 Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 well, you know mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAllusionisst Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 Schmoron13, You are that Bryce user, right? LOL The point about the DWG importer worries me only because of AutoDesk's new Virus......ooops I mean encryption routine, Previously software companies could join the 'Open DWG Alliance" and obtain a DWG importer, now it looks like Autodesk may have finally thrown a wrench in the machine. I don't blame Autodesk for this, I believe in free interprise and think they have the right to protect their share of the market by internal means, I just don't like someone messing with my hardware/boot sector to do it. Anyway, even TrueSpace has a DWG importer, unfortunately they implemented it all wrong and it is useless. I don't want to get started on that one, I am a beta tester and I warned them from the get go, but the programmers (in this case it really was the programmers) thought they knew best and now every object is separated from its layer and you end up with Object1, Object2........Object327,982 you get the drift. Well, like I said, it will be time to study the work flow of the different programs and try to loose my pre-conceptions! Hey maybe Bryce is the best option! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAllusionisst Posted August 26, 2003 Author Share Posted August 26, 2003 Further support of my hypothesis is that the local AutoDesk/Discreet Imaginit Dealer doesn't list AutoDesk Viz on the front page with the other products. Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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