gregjenkins Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 The cat is out of the bag, my contract was up, and I left. I spent every day of the last 5 years dealing with hundreds of architectural firms, and it never ceases to amaze me. You guys (Architects), for the most part, don’t get what effective advertising is. Websites with nothing but a portfolio, flashy words in a magazine with a recent project in the background, or even worse, a brochure detailing all your great awards and education. Customers want to know how you can BENEFIT THEM. They do not care about what you or your firm has done. I just want to help. Now that I am free from legal constraints I want to offer some value to architects in a more casual manner, after all, if it wasn’t for you guys where would our world stand? On the ground. So please, ladies and gentlemen in the architect community, ask me anything you want to know about advertising online, offline, in person, networking, whatever, I’ll answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 You guys (Architects), for the most part, don’t get what effective advertising is. 3 sentences in and you are already insulting the audience you seek to help? Good luck with all that pal. For the most part, first-time posters don't get what effective communication is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heni30 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) No need to get defensive - I don't think it was that insulting - architects are famous for being an ego-centric bunch for the most part. Just look at a sampling of the the latest projects showcased in Architectural Record, for example. There's this emphasis on originality, standing out, flash. We obsessively focus on this "art" aspect of architecture at the expense of other more practical aspects such as marketing; business; management, etc. Greg - Can you elaborate on your "benefiting the client" comment? What are some different strategies you would suggest? Is there a priority of benefits that is best followed? I think we (I) assume and take it for granted that the client already is aware of how what I can offer will benefit them so maybe I don't spell it out in an organized, coherent manner. Thanks in advance, George Edited July 18, 2012 by heni30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic H Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hi and welcome to the forum. Firstly a big congratulations for having worked at a multi million dollar marketing agency im sure your time there was enjoyable (I once made 2000 pounds on a freelance job btw - very lucrative industry Im sure you will agree) Can you give some more info about how to better market ourselves as architectural illustrators / animators / branding / communications / film in a crowded industry besesiged by poor quality work and advertising hand me downs? Most here work loosely in the visualization industry - rather than architects - however many of us have practiced architecture in the past. What are some studios companies that do it well in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hey Greg, Welcome to the forums. For the most part, the people here are not practicing architects, but professional visualization artists, so you are talking to the people who in many cases DO get marketing. Some of the contributors to this site are some of the best architectural "marketers" in the world. I'm not saying your observations are incorrect about the architectural field, just know that you might be preaching to the choir a bit when speaking to this audience. I'd like to chat to you some more, so if you like shoot me an email jmottle@cgarchitect.com. I'd like to hear more about your background and experiences. Maybe there is something we can do. Cheers, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Good idea for a thread, sounds like you could have some valuable advice. I totally agree with what you're saying about Architects not having a clue about how to market themselves - I see it on a daily basis too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Greg - welcome! So a guy walks into a room, sits down and finds himself being insulted and put down by the man who's office he's just entered. He is incensed. But he admits "I came here for an argument!" "Oh", says the other man, "this is abuse. Arguments are down the hall". On the one hand it's great that you came by to offer your skills, and in the first post point out that we architects are crap at marketing, but you started by not taking the time to read the sign on the door. Architects are down the hall. My father has spent the last thirty or so years teaching marketing and business strategy to architects and engineers, before that he was an architect and renderer (see that sign on our door now?). So I know you're right, I've watched his work with interest, and also watched my architect clients do the most arrogant, bone-headed things. So what agency were you with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 No need to get defensive - I don't think it was that insulting - architects are famous for being an ego-centric bunch for the most part.. George Ooooooh! He did it it again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I doubt we'll see this troll ever again. But, it was good for a laugh. For someone who trashes architects for using flashy words without providing anything substantial, I'd never guess this thread and that person's post would have a flashy headline yet go no where. Not to mention he would post all of his fancy dancy experience, yet provide no real answers or direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 3 sentences in and you are already insulting the audience you seek to help? Good luck with all that pal. For the most part, first-time posters don't get what effective communication is. I apologize for the bluntness i have just found me freedom and kind just let my mind flow out. If you have any questions let me know. -Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 No need to get defensive - I don't think it was that insulting - architects are famous for being an ego-centric bunch for the most part. Just look at a sampling of the the latest projects showcased in Architectural Record, for example. There's this emphasis on originality, standing out, flash. We obsessively focus on this "art" aspect of architecture at the expense of other more practical aspects such as marketing; business; management, etc. Greg - Can you elaborate on your "benefiting the client" comment? What are some different strategies you would suggest? Is there a priority of benefits that is best followed? I think we (I) assume and take it for granted that the client already is aware of how what I can offer will benefit them so maybe I don't spell it out in an organized, coherent manner. Thanks in advance, George Apologies on the late reply's. I got time to come on here once a day to answer your questions and that's what i'll do. To answer your question here is what i would do. Take an hour or two to sit down and really think about what your client's problem, fear, or frustration is when starting a design project. Do they not want to be dealing with the headache of making constant changes to every little aspect? Are they afraid the project will fumble and they will have to start over? Do they desperately want someone who they feel they can trust to handle their project and handle it well? These are some general questions, but take a step into your customers shoe and consider what they are thinking when looking for an architect. Once you have this figured out make a list of how your firm solves these problems. E.G. Providing 20 years of quality service to clients Instead write With a 20 year track record, you can trust us to take your project from ground zero to completion. Originally you have the 20 year track record, cool... Now you have a 20 year track record that takes your clients projects from ground zero to completion. Benefiting them. If you want more specifics, just ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 If you have any questions let me know. So what was that agency? Oh, and do you now understand the difference between architects and architectural renderers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hi and welcome to the forum. Firstly a big congratulations for having worked at a multi million dollar marketing agency im sure your time there was enjoyable (I once made 2000 pounds on a freelance job btw - very lucrative industry Im sure you will agree) Can you give some more info about how to better market ourselves as architectural illustrators / animators / branding / communications / film in a crowded industry besesiged by poor quality work and advertising hand me downs? Most here work loosely in the visualization industry - rather than architects - however many of us have practiced architecture in the past. What are some studios companies that do it well in your opinion? To break through in a crowded low quality industry you must do something different and do it good. Here are two things i would recommend that i have seen yield good results in these situations. 1. Branding- Create a brand that people can connect with. People want to buy things/services from other people because they can connect with them. The next closest thing to a person is a brand. People who use mac's connect with the apple brand, almost to the point where it is part of their persona. Brand is not only about logo's and look, it is the whole feel to your firm. How do you talk with your clients, how do you deal with them when things go wrong etc. When somebody can connect with your brand they will be loyal as a customer, feel appreciated, and spread the work because they want more people to have the same experience they did. This ultimately brings you more clients and makes you stand out above the rubbish. Check out Wally Ollins - The Brand Handbook The best branding book i have read 2. Video The internet is slowly heading there, video is the future. People have smaller and smaller attention spans when it comes to browsing online, and when they see a hunk of text or a hundred picture portfolio, they will leave. Youtube is one of most frequented site on the internet and is still growing in popularity If you can incorporate your work, your message, and your brand into a 2-3 minute video and stick it on your website. You will be years ahead of your competition and really stand out from all the mediocre/spam marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hey Greg, Welcome to the forums. For the most part, the people here are not practicing architects, but professional visualization artists, so you are talking to the people who in many cases DO get marketing. Some of the contributors to this site are some of the best architectural "marketers" in the world. I'm not saying your observations are incorrect about the architectural field, just know that you might be preaching to the choir a bit when speaking to this audience. I'd like to chat to you some more, so if you like shoot me an email jmottle@cgarchitect.com. I'd like to hear more about your background and experiences. Maybe there is something we can do. Cheers, Jeff Thanks for the tip Jeff, I'm just trying to give advice to anyone who is asking, i will shoot you an e-mail today or tomorrow. btw i really like that shot of the London Eye on your Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Good idea for a thread, sounds like you could have some valuable advice. I totally agree with what you're saying about Architects not having a clue about how to market themselves - I see it on a daily basis too. I just see so much potential in this field and sadly i even spoke with architects who have had clients come to them after watching HGTV thinking that they can design a house themselves, and the architect will just do the "drawing". People need to understand how much schooling it takes to be an architect and really just start to appreciate you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Greg - welcome! So a guy walks into a room, sits down and finds himself being insulted and put down by the man who's office he's just entered. He is incensed. But he admits "I came here for an argument!" "Oh", says the other man, "this is abuse. Arguments are down the hall". On the one hand it's great that you came by to offer your skills, and in the first post point out that we architects are crap at marketing, but you started by not taking the time to read the sign on the door. Architects are down the hall. My father has spent the last thirty or so years teaching marketing and business strategy to architects and engineers, before that he was an architect and renderer (see that sign on our door now?). So I know you're right, I've watched his work with interest, and also watched my architect clients do the most arrogant, bone-headed things. So what agency were you with? I am not going to say what agency i am with because we didn't have the best of endings and there is still some legal issues going on with me leaving including things that my future really depends on (401k, Health insurance) etc. And i am very familiar with internet culture, posting something like that on a message board. Who knows who will find it. I just threw in a google search of "architect forums" and found you guys so i thought i could help. What was your father's strategy with his architect clients? How was it different with engineers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 I doubt we'll see this troll ever again. But, it was good for a laugh. For someone who trashes architects for using flashy words without providing anything substantial, I'd never guess this thread and that person's post would have a flashy headline yet go no where. Not to mention he would post all of his fancy dancy experience, yet provide no real answers or direction. Apologies on the slow reply Scott i should have stated this in the first post, but i only have time to answer questions one time a day, so post them up here and i will answer them in a flurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I am not going to say what agency i am with... Hey, you brought it up. Is it the web hosting outfit in CO? My father's approach is similar to what you said--get away from 'we're so f*ing great you should feel honored to be one of our chosen clients' and instead tell the potential client how they could help them achieve their objectives (showing first that you actually understand them). Renderers often miss this as well. What attracts you to architects, by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic H Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 interesting thread greg - thanks but feels like you are preaching to the converted somewhat! id still like to hear who you think is good at architectural marketing / branding at the moment - whether than be traditional advertising agencies or studios that do it all from branding to film in house. specifics about what it takes to sell a building / enviroment and strategies to allow you to go outside of the clients perceived comfort zone. im interested in pushing branding and imagery for the built environment outside of the generally conservative approach that gets wheeled out these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Hey, you brought it up. Is it the web hosting outfit in CO? My father's approach is similar to what you said--get away from 'we're so f*ing great you should feel honored to be one of our chosen clients' and instead tell the potential client how they could help them achieve their objectives (showing first that you actually understand them). Renderers often miss this as well. What attracts you to architects, by the way? Nah it wasn't in Colorado. Your father had it on the button. Most people really have no idea what an architect really does, they say things like "They draw buildings on sketch pads", but really don't have the slightest clue. Most people i know couldn't say more than a few sentences about what an architect is. So when it comes down to needing one, how are they gonna know who to choose? I really think that modern building design is in a crisis. Especially in the U.S., i have been to some other countries without these problems, but it is mostly in the U.S. All of the homes being built are "track homes" which just replicate each other for blocks and blocks, or apartment buildings that look identical to the one across town. The originality and uniqueness of the design world is lacking. If people understood and respected architecture like the medical field we would have a nicer looking world. Not the same thing every block you turn. I want to see the average guy having an architect design his house because the house represents him. Not just phase 3 of track 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 interesting thread greg - thanks but feels like you are preaching to the converted somewhat! id still like to hear who you think is good at architectural marketing / branding at the moment - whether than be traditional advertising agencies or studios that do it all from branding to film in house. specifics about what it takes to sell a building / enviroment and strategies to allow you to go outside of the clients perceived comfort zone. im interested in pushing branding and imagery for the built environment outside of the generally conservative approach that gets wheeled out these days. Here are some examples i like that hit the nail on the head in terms of branding and the first one has some videos on the website (Although there is much to be improved, there still is something) http://www.haririandhariri.com/ http://www.aedas.com/ http://shl.dk/eng/ The last one does superb branding, you really get a feel for the webpage. If they follow this up with good service, reinforcing the brand throughout the buying process, that brand will last forever. But is i keep harping on about, none of these websites take into account the viewer, they don't speak their language, they don't address their problems, and they don't connect with the viewer. Here is an example of a great sales type video (i have yet to find a good one in the architectural field) that hits the nail on the head. With technology now, a video like this could be made for a small firm on a budget. Here is how i would get people out of their comfort zones. 1. Connect with them and find out what their current frustrations are. 2. Show how your building/environment strategy solves this problem That's the simple version. Here are some specifics that will help with the process 1. Trust- if your client trusts you, and see's you as an expert, they will let you go ahead with your ideas. Does anyone question a doctor? Make them understand you are a professional expert. 2. Brand- Make a brand that has some fire to it, something that evokes high-energy positive emotions. The people who connect with this will be more open to going outside the box. Build your brand to speak to these people. What motivates them? How does going outside the box make them special? If things ever get too confusing go back to the basics. Understand your client and speak their language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Great info Greg! I do love that commercial. Very well done indeed. I did not expect that product at the end. I think the biggest problem is that Architects in general (not all) are very slow to innovate. It takes decades for them to change anything in the way they approach and do things. I think the people in visualization and architectural marketing, many of whom are non-practicing architects, grew tired of the lack of creativity and innovation and moved into visualization to exercise a bit more of their creative muscle. I've seen that a lot. That having been said, I think a lot of what you know about marketing could easily be applied to many companies in our own industry and even help those companies too. Architects and developers are the primary clients of the people in our field. Looking forward to seeing where this thread goes. I'm not sure how much you know about architectural visualization, but here are some examples from the top companies in our field. Most of these are videos from our 2012 3dawards competition: http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/3160 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/1821 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/2299 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/3092 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/2414 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/3025 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/2891 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/2084 dbox in NY was just nominated for an Emmy award for their work on this piece for the WTC: http://www.cgarchitect.com/2012/07/dbox-receives-emmy-nomination-for-rising-cgi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Great info Greg! I do love that commercial. Very well done indeed. I did not expect that product at the end. I think the biggest problem is that Architects in general (not all) are very slow to innovate. It takes decades for them to change anything in the way they approach and do things. I think the people in visualization and architectural marketing, many of whom are non-practicing architects, grew tired of the lack of creativity and innovation and moved into visualization to exercise a bit more of their creative muscle. I've seen that a lot. That having been said, I think a lot of what you know about marketing could easily be applied to many companies in our own industry and even help those companies too. Architects and developers are the primary clients of the people in our field. Looking forward to seeing where this thread goes. I'm not sure how much you know about architectural visualization, but here are some examples from the top companies in our field. Most of these are videos from our 2012 3dawards competition: http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/3160 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/1821 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/2299 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/3092 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/2414 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/3025 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/2891 http://3dawards.cgarchitect.com/gallery/show/2084 dbox in NY was just nominated for an Emmy award for their work on this piece for the WTC: http://www.cgarchitect.com/2012/07/dbox-receives-emmy-nomination-for-rising-cgi Those were some interesting videos. I really liked the one from Istanbul. I was there a few months ago and most of the points addressed in that video are spot on. The city is dirty, overpopulated (Most populated city in Europe), and all of the buildings are old and stacked together. That video shows exactly what an international visitor would want if they came to Istanbul and even adds extras like a conference center for corporations, and as the world becomes more globalized, Istanbul (the gateway to the eastern world), will become more and more popular. I think much of what is done in this video can be applied on a smaller scale as well. With the visualization knowledge you guys have, you can utilize video now, and well into the future to show people what you do. It does have to be re-inventing a major city, it could be anything. Video cost will only get smaller and smaller as time goes on and hollywood level software will be available to the average person. The ground zero i thought was also very interesting and focused more on the visualization/build side but still really shows the possibilities and where things are headed in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjenkins Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 I am gonna do some research today and tomorrow and see if i can flip up some neat unique ideas for the visualization field. After reading through this thread i have began to realize that you guys are the design of the future. With technology advancing as rapid as it is, the potential for growth is massive. Stay tuned i got a couple ideas already brewing in my head to really innovate your visualization business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Video cost will only get smaller and smaller as time goes on and hollywood level software will be available to the average person. That day is already here and has been here for some time, say at least the last 8-10 years or so. The software and the power of the computer I am typing this on at home rivals anything you'd find at a major studio. We all have access to 3ds Max, Vray, Photoshop, After Effects, etc on our home machines. So that is leading to lower video costs as now complete amateurs can do this work at 25 cents to your dollar, they win the bids and now are producing sub-standard work. So lowering video costs is actually killing our industry. And not just the architecture industry, it's hurting everything from games to film and especially VFX. Have you seen the state of the US based VFX firms? Hollywood itself has been gutted, and we're talking major firms who had done major pictures going under here. What will always be the blocking force for architecture is that to the common person, even the crappiest rendering looks awesome. How many times have we seen people soil themselves with giddy excitement over the worst rendering we've seen? Of course, we're rolling our eyes but the everyday Joe thinks that it is the greatest thing since the lava lamp. The architecture industry as a whole is still very conservative. Yes, there are a few movers and shakers out there but the rest of it still is stuck in the 1950's. They say this industry is a decent 10 years behind the ball and it's true. I wish I could name one of the large architecture firms and I interviewed at, and did some contract work for, who still used AutoCAD R14 and Viz2000. This was in 2011! But, according to them, AutoCAD still drew lines and Viz still rendered so why upgrade? Why pay? There is still enough of the Old Breed running this industry, so we've got a ways to go before we truly start innovating. You can pitch your ideas until you turn blue, and they'll just ask you for your stock imagery. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1990803,00.html Read the article but just replace VFX with arch viz, and it pretty much reads the same. Especially the parts about outsourcing, cheap entry costs, change orders and the overall economy. Heck, even the part how companies were formed. A lot of the glut in our industry came during the bubble when developers were just shelling out cash with little regard because they knew they'd make it back with surging selling costs for the structure. The economic down slide from the bubble burst has taken a lot of the cash off the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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