I just left a multi-million dollar marketing agency. Ask me anything.

[matthewspencer]

Like Nils, I was also suspicious from the get-go.

 

1. "Multi-million dollar" marketing agency? You mean, a company with the dollar value of...any mid-sized company?

2. College-level "Advertising 101" marketing tips.

3. Doesn't know the term "moonlighting"?

4. Unrealistic expectations of client-arch relationship, e.g.:

Your customer doesn't stop at the sale. Find out what they like, what their hobbies are and buy them a book about it and send it to them with a thank you note.

 

Take them to their favorite restaurant.

Okay, then later that night I'll take their kids to soccer practice and massage their wife's achy feet.

[Devin Johnston]

I was really hopeful this was going somewhere but as soon as the whole moonlighting thing happened it started smelling fishy to me. I think there's some merit in getting to know your client personally but sending them love letters and wining and dining them seems more like a bribe to me. This guy is a poor marketer, his whole plan just fell apart and didn't bring anything to the table that we didn't already know and any new ideas were developed by CGA members.

[Jonathan Fantucchio]

Wow. This was amazing. I always felt this thread was a bit odd.

[Jeff Mottle]

The post to his Doctor's website and another medical website (now removed) reeked of SEO manipulation as well. May not have been but because it was so out of left field and completely unrelated to the thread, I got rid of it anyway. Depending if he comes back to reply to more threads I may "manipulate" his links to his site so they are not search engine readable. I too feel a bit like I've been taken advantage of. A lot of companies do this on our forums as CGA will rank almost any site within 24 hours if there is a link here.

 

If nothing else comes out of this thread, it was at least an interesting read and opens the discussion amongst ourselves. I think he failed to realize that some people on this forum do marketing for million and billion dollar projects for some of the largest architectural and developer clients on the planet. And very well I might add! He certainly is not going to win any business of that scale with his current website that is for sure, but maybe some mom & pop design company who don't know any better.

 

The one thing that was so glaring to me was that he preaches getting to know your customer, yet his contact page and about us section were about as impersonal as you could get. No phone numbers, no address, no real names.

 

There are generally two types of businesses I never patronize. Those who don't post their prices online (for software and services / aka consult-ware or so high priced they have to hard sell you by phone) and those with generic contact pages and about sections.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Jeff Mottle

[salvador]

Ok, let's try a different angle: Do you know how firms like Zaha Hadid architects, or Herzog + De Meuron or Morphosis do their marketing? Do they really need to? I find those and other big famous firms to be a clear example of success. How do they market themselves?

[Scott Schroeder]

Alas, for the most part, Greg is absolutely right - and then some, as they don't seem to know what constitutes good service, either.

 

Let me tell you why: I was a corporate trainer in Customer Service (the face-to-face kind, not the horrific contemporary corporate versions) for a billion-dollar venture capital firm for many years prior to returning to Architecture. When I started this company, I found that most, if not all, Architects thought that being on time, with good design and plans, and on budget constituted good service.

 

This is certainly true, and part and parcel of any good service. BUT ... as Greg points out, most of them fail to provide the Client with a sense of being well-serviced for a simple reason: They don't ask the magic question, i.e., "What has to happen in order for you to feel that we've provided you with exceptional service?"

 

Architectural Arrogance requires that, much like a physician, that we know what's better for the Client than they do. While this is also largely true, this particular brand of arrogance seems to preclude asking for the CLIENTS actual definition of what constitutes 'Good Service' to him or her. It's quite simple -- if you don't ASK, you don't KNOW.

 

Does anyone remember that great survey Architectural Record published about 15 years ago? They interviewed both GCs and Architects about what was most important in working together. In other words, Architects were asked what they felt was the most important service they provided to Contractors, and GCs were asked what was most important in getting good service from Architects.

 

Number One on the Architects' list: Providing Good Design. Where did that fall on the GC's list? Seventh. Think about that.

 

Number One of the GC's list of what they needed from Architects? Good Communication.

 

So, if you don't ask, you don't know.

 

Listen to Greg ... we need to get outside of our well-designed little boxes and pay attention to Professionals in THEIR line of work. After all, we expect our Clients to listen to us ... why shouldn't we be expected to listen to other Professionals when they speak?

 

Just my 2¢' worth.

 

This was the post the sealed the deal that this guy was a fake. This poster joined in 2006 and did not post a single post until this one. Are you telling me that he trolled this site for 6 years and this was the first time he felt compelled to say, "Oh yeah, totally right on!"

[Scott Schroeder]

Ok, let's try a different angle: Do you know how firms like Zaha Hadid architects, or Herzog + De Meuron or Morphosis do their marketing? Do they really need to? I find those and other big famous firms to be a clear example of success. How do they market themselves?

 

Name brand is key with the larger architects. It is a lot like other famous names in other industries. They get the work simply because they have spent the years gaining name notoriety. Doesn't necessarily mean they are the best, but they have the name branding.

[Jeff Mottle]

Name brand is key with the larger architects. It is a lot like other famous names in other industries. They get the work simply because they have spent the years gaining name notoriety. Doesn't necessarily mean they are the best, but they have the name branding.

 

Of course any design is subjective as to whether or not its good architecture, but I'd argue those Starchitects got to where they are no so much for their marketing abilities as their designs. At least at the start of their careers. No amount of stellar marketing (before you have a name) is going to get you that sort of notoriety unless you started on a solid base. After they get that name though, you're right, they could probably design buildings with no windows and 1 bathroom for the entire building and they would probably still get business

[salvador]

Of course any design is subjective as to whether or not its good architecture, but I'd argue those Starchitects got to where they are no so much for their marketing abilities as their designs. At least at the start of their careers. No amount of stellar marketing (before you have a name) is going to get you that sort of notoriety unless you started on a solid base. After they get that name though, you're right, they could probably design buildings with no windows and 1 bathroom for the entire building and they would probably still get business

 

ha ha ha!!! Jeff, you pulled a laugh out of me, thx for that!

 

Totally agree. Good designs + good marketing. Great architecture is out there. . .

[gregjenkins]

aarrrghhhhh wtf

im seriously thinking that you are a bot...?

 

suspicious lol

 

Nah, i am just trying to give you guys some useful information and learn as much as i can about the industry.

 

-Greg

[gregjenkins]

OK well i read through all of your posts and here is what i have to say.

 

1. The website is new and has been made in the last couple weeks. We did not want to invest a massive amount into creating the best website, just testing an idea. Websites, video services, and social media in the architectural field. The post about the doctor was legitimate, and that is a true problem that i have had. I do apologize for posting the links and i should have just put some text excerpt to prevent the spam.

 

2. I really am having a hard time understanding why so many of you are so angry. OK i came onto here, answered your questions and provided information on how to more effectively sell yourself/service/Brand. When i post my new website and you don't like it, don't go to it anymore it is no big deal.

 

You can still take all of the information and i have provided for you and use it for your benefit.

 

The "I can't believe i wasted 4 minutes of my life" and all this anger seems a little misdirected. If you didn't like the website you could leave it whenever you want. I have spent a lot more than 4 minutes answering questions on these forums for you guys.

 

You could say "Greg i can tell you are new in this business, here is how you could improve your website to better adapt to architects"

 

I don't expect an apology from you guys or anything like that, i just think it was a bit of a harsh reaction for something that was inevitably coming.

 

-Greg

[Jeff Mottle]

I think the reaction stems from building everyone up with a certain expectation of your marketing abilities and having a website and pitch that fell short of meeting that expectation. Some of the people here are EXTREMELY good at marketing architecture, so expect to get crits. Thus far, the information you've shared has, as some others pointed out, been very elementary marketing 101 stuff and common sense. Maybe, you've got some more secret sauce hidden away in your back of tricks that you don't want to share, but this is going to be a tough crowd to impress. This is what we do for a living. I know you're promoting yourself to architects and not visualizers, but I'd say this group understands the problem more than any. Many ARE Architects, many have worked as Architects, and are now on the marketing side.

[Jeff Mottle]

I should add too that many of the companies here also develop websites, ad creative, interactive apps, iphone apps, kiosks, films, imagery etc. The experience base of this group spans the gamut of almost every marketing deliverable there is in real-estate.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Jeff Mottle

[Justin Hunt]

One thing you will learn about us is that we call a spade a spade and with respect don't pull a punch.

 

If something impresses us them we will go out of our way to promote it.

 

jhv

[Fooch]

Hi All, I have to say that I have been following this thread since it started, and always felt like there was another shoe about to drop (as pointed out by others). I don't think that the poster had ill will, he is just executing his strategy. What he seem to totally lack is an understanding of who we are, clearly at the beginning he thought we were Architects, but after careful posts, folks here generally got him in the right direction, (I would say still not all the way to understanding).

 

In my opinion he still needs some honing of his sales skills. Some fundamental keys are; never talk down to your audience, understand their needs (he spoke often of this) and get them comfortable with you. I would say he missed on all accounts (with me at least), even though clearly being well versed in selling.

 

From watching the 4 min video on his site, (can't get that time back) It seems like he is touting a "Solving the problem of Architects" formula. I have to say I was offended by the graphics, illustrations and animation (among others). Looking back, he is totally of base if he claims to understand the problems better than us, especially if he watched any CGA awards work from the last decade (compared to bad stick figure animation with cheesy VO) or any other marketing films produced by members of this audience.

 

I hold this audience in high regard, from moonlighters to the most established studios, we should be proud of our industry and the work we produce. It is offensive to be told "you are doing it wrong" when it is your life's work, we all take the time (I hope) to craft an individual solution for each client.

 

Knowing that the industry is a small one, I would be interested to hear if anyone come across this company from clients or different channels. I would like to commend the group on it's respect and willingness to engage, I hope this continues and things like this don't jade our view.

 

-Nils - Neoscape

 

 

Well said nils +1

[Nils Norgren]

Hello Greg, as the one who made the snarky comment about the 4 minutes, I will apologize for that. I won't for the rest of the post. Your initial post title is "I just left a multi-million dollar marketing agency. Ask me anything." Reviewing the post title, you cannot complain about having put in time answering question, when you ASKED to be asked questions, a cynic would say that the members of CG architect were simply humoring you. The spirit of the post title is that your knowledge is so much greater than everyone on this board we should take this opportunity to ask questions (it might be our only chance).

 

You could have worded this many ways, you chose to put yourself out as an EXPERT, and were sure to mention that the size of the agency was "Multi-Million Dollar" then later adding you couldn't say who it was (I have opinions I won't share reading between the lines on this).

 

The jaded, cynical view when I first saw the title of original post, was, "who does this guy think he is?", if you had said, "I OWN/RUN a multi-million dollar marketing agency. Ask me anything." then I would have been inclined to engage and be less suspicious.

 

I also noticed you haven't posted on any other threads on this site. The typical course for new users, is to find some posts, read them, if they can provide useful feedback, they post. I understand that you are specific in your interest, looking for possible clients among this group, if you were to truly ENGAGE this audience, you might find it best to (at least appear) to be one of the group and participate in different posts.

 

One thing that needs to be said, we are artists that strive for technical excellence (along with all the rest that comes with our craft), which is one reason the animation and illustration in your promo was called out. Please take a look at the work of some of the artists on this board (especially the After Effects work from studios like Squint Opera).

 

-Nils Norgren, Founder/Owner, Neoscape

[Guest calumreid]

Yes this thread did seem a bit fishy from the get go, but nevertheless i found it pretty useful. But that was largely thanks to the views and comments from other CGA members, and not the re-hashed common sense 'expert marketing' skills that the original poster preached. Im still young and haven't finished uni yet, so i got some great insights into the field through this thread. But all that 'advice' is what we got told in the first semester of my course, basic business common sense really. But thanks again for your views guys!

[Tommy L]

yeah, Ive followed this thread all the way through too. Not out of any hope of learning anything new, just to see some validation of what Ive already experienced in starting my own studio.

Marketing speak is invariably lubed up with snake oil and this thread confirms that for me. My experience is that work leads to work. Chicken and the egg Im afraid, look for your first break hard enough and you'll find it, but if you're going from a standing start then you'll need a slice of luck. Hiring a firm like Completion Web Studio because takings are down is throwing good money after bad. My 2c.

[M V]

What an interesting thread. I learned a good deal from reading this thread. Not so much about marketing but more about how passionate and hard working we are as arch illustrators. I don't mind so much about getting duped into some shameless plug. In this day and age you have to get really creative in order to sell your product and I respect him for giving it a really good try. Maybe he should hire Neoscape to help with his animation work? How's that for turning the tables?!?

[johnathanwest]

Its my thought that if an Architect was good at marketing.... They would probably switch carriers.

I do see a lot of changes in marketing for designers in the past 5 years.

Studios like Neoscape.com have come to offer great marketing solutions for designers and developers.

That's whats separates a good rendering studio from a Great production house.

[chalk]

A little green box on the top of gcarchitect told me i hadn't posted in ages and urged me to be more friendly and post more, so i thought i'd post something here!

 

I just went to Gregs site and the first thing i noticed was this testimonial from someone at the bottom called Carrie

 

"....After speaking with the Completion staff i knew they could solve my problems. Now i get 5-6 new customers a week from Facebook buy cheap cialis viagra 25 mg Viagra is the most famous ‘love pill’"

 

Quality!

 

Also i'm making a render at the moment of a big cathedral.... it's coming on quite nicely so i'll let you all see it soon. I'm charging $200 for the initial viewing up front. It's got some nice lighting so i think it will be worth the initial investment due to the fuzzy warm feeling it will give your eyeballs

 

Karlito

[carlotristan3d]

This is like watching an overly hyped movie that just flat-out bombed. I wanted to give the poser the benefit of the doubt as there was some merit to the discussion until I went to his website. For one, I've never met an architect that refers to his employer as 'customer', it's always 'client'.