skala67 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 So good to be back. A little background. I had started a Viz biz in 2006 (LedSled Inc.) and had built a pretty good 1 person Viz company until.....2009 decided to decimate so many in the industry. Needless to say, I had to dissolve the company and return to Architecture. (It even took over a year to find a job due to how badly our industry was hit) Fast forward 3 years. I have been working for a design firm (they were a client back in the day) and have worked with the owners to start a visualization division within the company doing both in house work and creating revenue by building up outside clientele. I am lucky that they understand the difference of Viz v. architecture, when it comes to rates/costs/timing etc.....and they have asked me to put together a loose business plan. The landscape of Arch Viz has changed so much over the past 3 years, so after that long winded background...I have some questions. 1. I know there is not one set rate for still images or animations, but I would love to hear how we are charging these days (rates). I used to charge around $1800-2000 an image and $100-150 per second of animation, but I have a feeling things have changed....are we worth more now?!?! I am located in the Southwest USA, but I am sure that rates/solutions from anyone who has done work or is working in the US will allow me to create some ballpark figures. 2. I still have contacts from Led Sled, from working in the architectural field, and from organizations such as AIA that I will be contacting first to get things rolling, but how are you finding work these days? 3. It used to be enough to just have a website and some flyers. Are there any new marketing ideas that are being utilized? 4. Are there new markets that are just being scratched? Any new online resurces? Some very broad questions but I appreciate any feedback. Thank you in advance and as I said before....Its good to be back, hopefully this time for the long haul. Cheers, TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If anything fees are tighter, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I agree with Justin. Most firms are now bombarded with daily emails quoting sub $1000 prices for what amounts to pretty good work and quick turnarounds. AE firms are also getting squeezed tighter on the client end for fee so line items for renderings that once allowed for an easy 20% markup for them are some of the first things to get scratched out during contract negotiations on smaller jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skala67 Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Thats what i had actually thought has been happening. More sarcasm and wishful thinking than anything. Thank you for that info though. That will help. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M V Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If I could get 2k for a single rendering, life would be good. I had to slash my rates to WalMart prices just to keep clients interested. There are way too many guys out there doing this stuff out of their basement for a lot less than that. I even read on here not too long ago there was this young guy (18 or so) and he was charging $60 for a rendering! Even if its low quality and unprofessional looking, I think some clients just don't care. They need a picture and they need it cheap. The market is oversaturated and a very different place now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Ignore what the rest of the field is charging. Charge what you think is fair and what you need to be happy in your business. Compete on other areas such as service and proximity, you will still be delivering VALUE and thats what counts. A client that will not spring >$1k for an image is not worth having... Im also finding that the majority of my clients are not the one who foots the bill. Its always a cost thats passed on to the end client, so if they are playing hardball it may be because they want to increase their markup. The good clients know that a professional looking product delivered accurately and on time makes them look good to their client and that is worth more to them than the markup. Another point to be made is that of brand perception. If you agree to do an image for $800, you'll always be the company that does an image for $800. When they want something special, they will not come to you with more money, they will look for a more 'glamorous' (expensive) firm and give them the kind of budget that you really wanted in the first place. Although I price competitively Ive never gone down the cheap route, even through the hard times and its payed off. I let my clients know that I dont compromise on quality and they shouldn't expect to compromise on the fee. If they cant offer what I want then I recommend other freelancers I know in Chicago. Ive lost a client or two doing that, but none that Ive wanted to keep. I have an even spread between architecture/int design and collateral for product/medical and that really does insure me against slumps in the building industry. So yeah, I'd recommend diversification if you have the skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Gray Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Very well said Tom - I like your attitude. The only thing I would add is that you should also be selling yourself as part of the "value". When you are the commodity you begin to compete at a level that's beyond price, quality or speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skala67 Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Tom, First of all, I think I remember you from cgarchitect years ago. I believe you had a superman symbol or something. Secondly, Thank you for the response. I had run my business under the same ideals that you have laid out here and was able to keep a stable base. I just wasn't sure if this was still true, after seeing the industry crumble. I will adjust prices accordingly, but will not undersell. Since much of our work will be for other architects, they typically do not foot the bill for renders, but rather pass them on to their clients. This is a plus. Volume is also a key factor. If you are to do 4 still images of a space or building, you can charge less per image, but since they are all variations of the same thing, then technically you are paid more for the time involved. I think there is still something to be said for keeping up with older contacts and delivering quality works. M Valero, Hopefully, as it is with most saturated market, the ones that do not produce quality work will eventually thin out, leaving a stable balanced market. I guess we just need to hold our ground and push ahead. Most of my previous clients wouldn't trust a render for $60. I appreciate everyone's responses and will start posting more as soon as we get off the ground....Again! Cheers! TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I believe you had a superman symbol or something. If you are to do 4 still images of a space or building, you can charge less per image Yeah, that Tom. The thing about multi-view pricing is to have your regular rate and charge that for the first image, then less for the next and less for the next. That makes the point 'an image cost this much' (top rate) and also if they kill the work after one or two (since they were so good they already sold the idea) you still get your fee without the discount for the pieces they didn't end up buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skala67 Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Ernest, Great to hear from you! I agree. That is definitely the best way to do it. I will include that as part of the preliminary pricing structure. Thank you for reminding me of that! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlotristan3d Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I work for a large architecture firm in Canada and we outsource around 90% of our rendering works. The reason being it's cheaper than to do it in-house. And from looking at quotations and invoices, these are the prices; most reputable viz studios charge around 1600-2400/ image. After that there's a very steep decline in rates from moonlighters and overseas outsourcing companies. The rate go as low as 100/ image. And the quality is almost or at par with the reputable viz firms. But surprisingly, our company doesn't always go for the lowest bidder. the viz firm that has a history with the company always gets the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexg Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Hi we do the same thing Ernest says and always offer multiview options. But in the end clients usually opts only for 1 for the cost It is definitely tighter market now. You can partly blame it on evermo though One thing is that there is always a niche market. When offering 1500 wont work. There are 3 options. Go lower like what everybody does. Stay the same and wish for the luck. And go higher. Insane as it is. Sometimes go higher opens up a new market. Works a couple of times. Not all the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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