Autodesk Lays of 7% of staff

[Jeff Mottle]

Not sure how many people have seen this, but I'm just starting to hear about some really good people getting let go.

 

http://mashable.com/2012/08/23/autodesk-lays-off-7-of-entire-staff/

[anejo]

This is not the first time they've had massive layoffs. When i was there in early 2000, a lot of people i worked with (ironically from the 3D sector) were let go.

However, it should come as no surprise, anytime autodesk acquires another software company, there's going to be redundancy. And given autodesk makes several purchases annually, expect layoffs to continue to be part of their culture.

[Ernest Burden III]

...some really good people getting let go...

 

It's going around.

[heni30]

Does anyone know how Sketch-up has affected their bottom line? specfic article? - numbers? Who would have known it would come from Goggle?

[Scott Schroeder]

SketchUp had nothing to do with this. Most of the user base probably has the free version anyways. Besides, if SketchUP was so profitable Google wouldn't have shed it like a bad habit. They would have held on to it.

 

Autodesk is a bloated company with way too many products that suck and no one uses. Say, for example, Composite. Good idea, bad implementation and big money loser. They do not need to update their broken products every year. They should be on a 2-3 year cycle with good patching and software updates. But we really don't need a new version of Max/Maya/XSI every year. Especially if that new version sets you back 3 months with horrid buggy performance. Let's not forget that huge bowling pin they tried to violate us with by forcing use to buy the suite packages. If I don't use Maya, why the hell would I want to buy it? Why do I need Motion Builder? I just want to buy Max.

 

Many of their largest companies refuse or are hesitant to pay for subscriptions due to they customized scripts they use. It's bad business to have to always evaluate new software and since Autodesk has to break the source code every year, what worked in 2011 may not work in 2012 and 2012 won't work in 2013. It's idiotic. As soon as a dev team gets 2012 stable, 2013 comes out and nothing you did in 2012 will work in 2013. Yeah, I'd really want to spend more money to buy something that does the same thing as we have now, then spend even more money getting the scripts that we have working now updated to 2013.

 

Autodesk also has a bad case of "improving" things that do not need improvement in order to justify a yearly release cycle. Their selection menu was just fine, they go in and "improve" on it and now it was so horrid that most people went back to the ini file to switch it back to the old version. It'd be nice if I hit the select by name that the menu would at least start at the top, maybe even start on the object I have selected. But that's too advanced and hard for Autodesk to implement. What was it in, 2010 that it wouldn't even sort by Alphabetic by default? What dumbass programmed that? By the way, if you hate the clown version of select by name dialog and want the old one go to:

 

C:\Documents and Settings\yourusername\Local Settings\Application Data\Autodesk\3dsmax\2012 – 64bit\enu\defaults\MAX\CurrentDefaults.ini

and change:

[scene Explorer]

SelectByNameUsesSceneExplorer=1

to

[scene Explorer]

SelectByNameUsesSceneExplorer=0

 

Then we come to the subject of the caddies. Seriously? You spend money on those things? They took the plugin Polyboost which ran smoothly and turned that into Graphite Modeling which now chugs the first time you select a polygon. Graphite has great tools, but they implemented it poorly. They took a product that works and made it into a product that sort of works. I won't go into the User Interface. But let's just rant about the application button (the big A). I have to chuckle to think that Autodesk, in an effort to improve the GUI, took design notes from one of the most hated mainstream application UIs in existence: Office 2007. Even more humorous is that right after Autodesk copied the application button from Office 2007, Office 2010 was released, now without the pointless button. One more thing, in 2013, did they really need to move the net render check box? Really?

 

How many of us actually use the new features since say 2009, which I think was the last great and stable Max? I think Slate was a good idea, but again, implemented so poorly that it becomes unusable after 3 materials and God save you if you have a multi-sub. I use Graphite, but I used Polyboost before then so that's nothing new. I don't use iRay. I don't use Nitrous.

 

I feel bad for the people that got let go. I'm sure the real people who need to be let go are still there and the hard working ones got the ax. I'm sure the recent flow of bad news from the gaming sector has hurt them too. Gaming is taking a beating, much like architecture did in 2008-2009.

[Jeff Mottle]

Does anyone know how Sketch-up has affected their bottom line? specfic article? - numbers? Who would have known it would come from Goggle?

 

Scott is right, SketchUp (which is now called Trimble SketchUp) has nothing to do with it. I doubt that SketchUp's impact on their overall business even registers as much more than a blip. They missed the end of quarter market projections and wall street hammered them, despite Carl Bass having warned them it was coming. Someone like Facebook who has an unsustainable business model comes out with an over valued IPO and when they loose 40% of their value it makes sense. But when a company (Autodesk) with a very sound business, a dominating market share, and lots of cash in the bank, misses one quarter wall street reacts like the sky is falling. For their share price to loose 21% in a day (now down 15%) is ridiculous. Sometimes I think stock brokers sit in a backroom and throw darts to decide the whims of the market. I also think Autodesk is held to a much higher standard to most and they love to crucify them anytime they can. Net income was down 9% and loosing a quarter of the company value is completely disproportional.

[Josef Wienerroither]

They missed the end of quarter market projections and wall street hammered them, despite Carl Bass having warned them it was coming.

 

Do you have a reference where Carl Bass warned them ? To me, in the podcast he sounded like Autodesk was equaly suprised that revenue was dropping that sharp in Q2. But of course they had their numbers already for longer time internaly ... But when /where did they warn their investors ? Not that i care that much for them, i care more for the products like Max and o.c. people connected directly to it etc..)

 

And: mind to mention some names who had to go ?

Some sources told me that S.G. might have been hit ... ( he was active here from time to time )

 

 

@Scott and Caddies:

If you can't stand them (the Cadddies ): i released a Edit Poly/Editable Poly plugin package for 3ds Max 2011- 3ds Max 2013 with recompiled versions of the plugins a while ago. The source code is in the SDK samples so i was able to fix it.

Those recompiles allow Caddies/legacy toolwindows to be toggled on/off during runtime ( default ist OFF ). Just read about them here in this Autodesk Area thread

 

http://area.autodesk.com/forum/t67676

Edited August 26, 2012 by spacefrog

[heni30]

SketchUp had nothing to do with this. Most of the user base probably has the free version anyways. Besides, if SketchUP was so profitable Google wouldn't have shed it like a bad habit. They would have held on to it.

 

It seems like it could be made extremely profitable now that it's become an industry standard and they have everyone hooked.

Edited August 26, 2012 by heni30

[Jeff Mottle]

Do you have a reference where Carl Bass warned them ? To me, in the podcast he sounded like Autodesk was equaly suprised that revenue was dropping that sharp in Q2.

I read it somewhere and can't find the article now, but it said something about Carl having warned about falling markets and likely not meeting the targets. If I can find it again I'll post it.

 

 

And: mind to mention some names who had to go ?

Some sources told me that S.G. might have been hit ... ( he was active here from time to time )

 

Yes he was unfortunately, but he said on his Facebook he was actually looking forward to the "what's next". Two others I know were let go as well and all very long time Autodesk employees who were all at one point product managers.

[Nic H]

well they had it coming. their subscription model is awfully overpriced and yearly cycles aimed at profit rather than innovation or customer needs.

 

there is a good thread on CGtalk that details autodesks track record in buying smaller bits of software and them destroying them or implementing them in a very poor manner. the thread contains autodesk reps struggling to explain their actions.

 

the sooner there is a viable alternative to 3dsmax the better! death to autodesk

 

(edit - what scott said ^)

Edited August 27, 2012 by nicnic

[Chris MacDonald]

Completely agree with all your sentiments guys. I would rather they adopted a 2/3 year release cycle, but with more updates/stability. The amount of new features that they introduce that I (and many others) simply don't need is overwhelming; all of it at the cost of stability it seems. I wish the viewport was simply better, I wish the snaps worked more like the ones in sketchup (they're just so damn good!)... So many small things that would improve the product massively.

[Josef Wienerroither]

I think one of the main issues this time was the ongoing "you'll only work in the Cloud" hype Carl Bass is spreading like no tomorrow. This leaves many customers/users uncertain of their current investment , because they regularily have to deal with strict NDAs, complete offline work environments, bandwidth/online availability issues etc.. .

At least that's the case in the Media & Entertainment sector where i come from mostly. Add on top of that the insane huge amount off data that would have to go up and down the lines constantly, when working cloud only...

Additionally they announced price increases for subscription, upgrade models and other things and gave the strong impression and push onto the userbase, that they wan't to force everyone into more expensive Suites. This is no good way to care for customer relationship, and finally this attitute has kicked them in the bottom

Edited August 27, 2012 by spacefrog

[Justin Hunt]

I wonder how much the suites are affecting them. Has it turned more people away being more expensive, or is it balancing it all out. Will it expand the user base of the other packages, the ones we didn't need before but now have anyway, or are people sticking with what they know?

 

They copped a hammering from the community with their latest productive enhancement release. Yet they still pat themselves on their backs for listening to their users by making a little more available to all subscribers. ?????

 

Considering how many large gaming, VFX and architectural studios that have gone under in the past few years it's not very surprising that they have lost revenue. Even though 3D is a really small part of their revenue.

[Mario De Achadinha]

Subs are awful with all of you guys on this... should be 2-3 cycles!

[Scott Schroeder]

Think about what came out between 2010 and 2012. Everything could have been a simple patch/upgrade, no need for a whole new software release. Then maybe they could have spent proper time on 2013 and not a release a whole new mess buggy problems and annoying carry-over features. Autodesk does one thing well and that is stick to their poor decisions. They make an awful UI feature, then stick to it like it was the greatest decision since man decided to start cooking food.

 

With Autodesk including more Maya-like navigation features into Max, but not the other way around, makes me wonder if one is going to be killed soon. Since Max is getting Maya-like features but Maya isn't getting the same, maybe they will kill Maya?

 

I really think their pricing structure has hurt them. I can create just as beautiful of a rendering with Max 2012 as 2013. I can work with 2012 for several years before it gets time to upgrade, but I certainly don't need and refuse to buy a yearly subscription.

[Josef Wienerroither]

With Autodesk including more Maya-like navigation features into Max, but not the other way around, makes me wonder if one is going to be killed soon. Since Max is getting Maya-like features but Maya isn't getting the same, maybe they will kill Maya?

That will not happen. 3ds Max sells more licenses than Softimage and Maya together. It's their selling horse in that field. What i fear personally, but would be fine for you here i guess (at last this is an archviz board ) , is that Max leans more onto the Archviz side of things. I'm personally more into gamedev etc., so that would not be my prefered future Max direction, but of course i do dig the beauty of renderings ). Some important people in the Max world were layed offo or will change roles, new Product Managers will appear, and all looks like it goes more to the Viz side

But of course nobody knows for sure until some official decisions are made public..

 

Edit: If one of the 3d packages gets axed or sold , it will be Softimage. It 's the weakest of those three ( in terms of sold numbers) and Autodesk always made it appear as their ugly duckling (marketing wise)...

 

EDIT:

Here's a great article with a lot of numbers and interesting details, be sure to read "Our Take"

http://gfxspeak.com/2012/08/23/autodesk-execution-challenges-lead-to-flat-second-quarter/

Edited August 28, 2012 by spacefrog

[Scott Schroeder]

I never thought there was that much gap, at least between Max and Maya. Just judging from the job boards, Max and Maya carry almost a 50% ratio. But Max gets a big boost from the architecture community though. The only reason XSI is down is because Autodesk purchased it.

 

Max, I think, will always be split into 2 products, Max and Max Design. Though, I think it's dumb to do so. I'd rather see Max as an a-la cart purchase. You can pick from various add-on options so you pay for stuff you'll actually use.

 

What bunch of fools. They are losing profits, yet pushing ahead with something no one wants. I haven't heard one good thing about Autodesk's move to cloud computing. Nice to see them hiding subscription numbers. I think they are taking a beating with that. If it was successful, they would flaunt the numbers, not hide them. The only lay off that is need is one, and that's Carl Bass.

[Justin Hunt]

I still scratch my head with the splitting of Max and Design, to this day I have yet to hear a valid reason for that move.

 

XSI is a great package, especially with ice, which is probably what is keeping its head above water. Now if they migrate ICE to Maya and Max then I see XSI being sold off (again).

 

I am thinking more and more about adopting Modo for my freelance work. Its not quite there yet but is going in the right direction and treats its uses properly.

 

jhv

[Nic H]

the splitting of max into the inferior 'design version' and the 'normal version' was and still is a terrible idea

its just an excuse to charge more for a worse product

 

i like the new 2013 feature where there is no net render button, well done autodesk

 

i looked at modo yesterday but no vray so not worth looking at yet. also not sure how it would handle huge scenes.

[Bruce Hart]

I've seen quite a few people over at Chaos asking for Vray for Modo, so fingers crossed...

[Justin Hunt]

Apparently (or so I've heard) Modo can struggle with larger scenes, but I also think it comes to how the scene is set up.

 

Modo's render engine is quite powerful and its global shader tree philosophy is quite different it anything else Iv'e seen. Once you get your head around it, it opens quite a few possibilities. The archviz stuff has been steadily improving over time which is good to see, not as refined as Vray or mentalray.

 

Now if it was possible to import DWG's directly, rather than DXF's and had Vray it would be a serious contender in the next couple of years.

 

jhv

[Scott Schroeder]

the splitting of max into the inferior 'design version' and the 'normal version' was and still is a terrible idea

its just an excuse to charge more for a worse product

 

i like the new 2013 feature where there is no net render button, well done autodesk

 

i looked at modo yesterday but no vray so not worth looking at yet. also not sure how it would handle huge scenes.

 

The moved it, apparently it was in such a bad spot for the last 6 releases. You now must submit to network rendering....... Submit to Autodesk!!

[Justin Hunt]

We'll be submitting to Autodesk even more once they implement 360 across the board.

[Josef Wienerroither]

Regarding new Product Managers for 3ds Max... there was an interesting development happening and a good well known person (at least for some people) will have a reappearance.. Can't drop names here currently, but i'm pleasently surprised and positively thrilled by that development ...

 

Regarding 3ds Max 3ds Max Design split:

the situtation when 3ds Viz still existed, was even worse. A product with an image of "incomplete Max". And back then that meant two different codebases to maintain and two different teams to work on it. Ken Pimentel stated that the split is more of a tool to be able to focus marketing for the two big segements: Visualisation and M&E and that this "tool" worked great. And as it looks, the feature difference still will be neglectable for at least some releases, so i have no problem with this split.

Edited August 29, 2012 by spacefrog

[Tommy L]

Regarding new Product Managers for 3ds Max... there was an interesting development happening and a good well known person (at least for some people) will have a reappearance.. Can't drop names here currently, but i'm pleasently surprised and positively thrilled by that development ...

 

Regarding 3ds Max 3ds Max Design split:

the situtation when 3ds Viz still existed, was even worse. A product with an image of "incomplete Max". And back then that meant two different codebases to maintain and two different teams to work on it. Ken Pimentel stated that the split is more of a tool to be able to focus marketing for the two big segements: Visualisation and M&E and that this "tool" worked great. And as it looks, the feature difference still will be neglectable for at least some releases, so i have no problem with this split.

 

My theory: I think the split is part of the overall game-plan to merge Max and Maya. It enables them to keep Max Design which would require a much lighter development team and then concentrate their 3d development resources on one super-product. Im sure the price will go up for Maxya but will have the best features cherry-picked from both.

 

And I dont know why people who use Autodesk products always bash them. There's plenty of other options out there if you are unhappy. Death to Autodesk? Thats a bit strong.