Render node again :)

[komyali]

Hello to everybody, this is my first post on cg architect and I want to thank you for the beautiful forum and a lot of information for CG. Now I will spent days on this forum

 

Now I want to build render node and I dont know what to do and what to buy. Don't want to spend too much money but also I want powerful node (everybody does ). So now I found motherboard motherboard and looking for intel xeon 5000 series cpu (don't like AMD) but there is a lot of xeon procesors...

 

Also what is confusing me is cores intel L5640 has 6 cores 2,26 Ghz that is 13,56 Ghz

and X5687 has 4 cores 3,6 Ghz that is 14,4 Ghz that is not big diference in total Ghz but the big diference is in the price and cores? What is better more Ghz or more cores because I need raw Ghz for vray and 3ds max? Also is it ok to be server motherboard with two procesors as a render node

tnx

cheers

[Jason Matthews]

Why not look at the i7 instead of the Xeon? The price to performance ration of the i7 is much better than the Xeon. Once you factor in the added cost of a server motherboard and ECC registered RAM, you could be looking at almost double the cost of an i7 system. You can build an i7-3930 6-core system with 32GB of RAM for $1600US. Depending on the processors you could spend that on just the processors.

 

But to answer your question, yes you can do dual Xeons on a server board as a render node. The difference in the GHz performance is really in the architecture of the chip. All things being equal, more GHz = faster rendering. But the real question is how much do you want to spend?

[komyali]

Tnx for your replay, I7-3930 is not for server motherboard with dual processors that is the reason I chose the xeon procesors. I already have i7 920 ( not fast as i73930) but it is good quad core processor for nice renderings. I bought new motherboard for 100$ plus 60$ shipping and 30% for tax (stupid country). I think that my render node will be cheaper than $1600 (i7 3930) and still have 2x4core processors with more Ghz, that is the main reason I chose xeon procesors. Also what do you think about used xeon processors? Is it possible to buy now one xeon processor and later secon or they need to be matched like RAM? And another question, when I draw a 3D model I have a lots of polygons because of smoothness, so sometimes it start to twitching ( have 16G of RAM 30%-40% used) so I think it is because of GPU (GTX470)?

[Dimitris Tolios]

As Jason said, your "effective GHz" logic applies only when you compare apples with apples: aka a Sandybridge architecture Xeon will have similar clock-to-clock performance with a Sandybridge i7. Architectures affect performance more than GHz themselves, but usually mainstream i7s have both the latest architecture and much faster clock times for a (in comparison) much lower price point.

 

Xeons offer the capability for 2x (or more) CPUs, ECC Ram support and higher Cache memory (although SB-E s2011 i7s like the 3930K have a lot of that too - those chips are closer to Xeons than mainstream LGA 1155 i7s after all). In most cases, the 2 latter points (ECC + cache) are not that critical for rendering nodes / workstation PCs.

 

Problem is, that the fast 6 and 8-core Sandybridge Xeons are pretty pricey. Top of the line 8-core Xeons cost as a single CPU more than what you would need to put together a full 3930K workstation (including decent GPUs, PSUs, cases, SSDs, HDDs and the works), and due to lower clocks, 8-core Xeons are not really faster in rendering, and actually slower in general computing / modeling tasks when most apps are single threaded.

 

So, to make a Xeon workstation worth its money, it has to be an all-out, 2x CPU, and more specifically, 2x FAST CPU equipped...

 

Otherwise a 3930K, especially overclocked, is simply way ahead in price/performance, and pretty high in absolute performance to make any single CPU Xeon worthwhile.

I don't know what kind of pricing you will get for the Xeon models you are mentioning, but those have nothing to offer over a 3930K and will most likely be more expensive.

[komyali]

Name Core/thread clock speed total Ghz socket new used 2 CPU

 

-i7-990x 6/12 3,46 ghz 20.76 1366 1000$ 620$ /

-i7-3930k 6/12 3,20 ghz 19,2 2011 600$ / /

-i7-2600k 4/8 3,4 ghz 13,6 1155 300$ 200$ /

-i7-2700k 6/12 3,5 ghz 14 1155 300$ / /

-w5580 xeon 4/8 3,2 ghz 12,8 1366 500$ 250$ 25,6Ghz

 

*prices from ebay

 

I have done a little research about processors and found that everything that Dimitris Tolios and Jason Matthews already said is written in this lets say table. When I started with xeon processors what I saw is they all have low clock speed except top two series witch are too expencive for my budget. The best choice is definitley i7 3920k lees slower clock than top one but price almost half. But when I looked at xeon w5580 it is the slowest CPU but two of them on server motherboard have the same price as top one i7 and 5Ghz more and if I buy used 25Ghz will be less than 600$. What do you think about xeon used processors (they are build for longer use and durability)? I have server motherboard socket 1366 for 100$ new! What do you think is better choice i7 3920k, or 2 xeon 5580?

[Dimitris Tolios]

Processors in general are extremely long lasting.

Unless you stress the chip extremely under a lot of voltage and/or a lot of heat, the CPU will most likely outlast any other component in the system.

Motherboards fail over time - mainly due to capacitors failing, PSUs fail over time, HDDs fail over time, SSDs fail over time and GPUs fail over time (again, capacitors, cooling fans, etc failing).

 

Last 10 years, CPUs have grown a lot as far as self-protection from heat dmg goes: detect temperatures automatically, regulate voltage to the cores automatically, throttle down or even shut down if the cooling system cannot keep up removing heat.

 

The only real fear for a CPU - outside the occasional failure that can randomly happen but its extremely rare, again far less likely than anything else in a tower - is overclocking it for prolonged time, under prolonged stress with a lot (and I do mean a LOT) extra volts. Depending on how much more volts (usually some 40-50% more than the factory setting) and what kind of cooling you were using, the CPU might start to deteriorate over time = not last virtually forever, but again under these conditions there is a high probability that the mobo feeding such an overclocked CPU with power might blow 1st!...

 

There are many CPUs running 1+GHz overclocks 24/7 under load with around 30% extra Vcore, ranges were most engineers agree that are still well within the factory tolerances.

 

Xeons and server motherboards rarely allow for overclocking and when they do, the potential for high o/c is not there, so pretty much nobody abuses them with Vcore adjustments. This doesn't mean that a 3930K will be worn and junk etc. Again, under abuse, the chip will last like a decade or at least a few years, and signs of wear are in the fact that it won't hold the 1GHz O/C as good anymore...resuming factory clocks and vcore, I would say it could run forever.

 

I would always prefer a faster 3930K, as it gives you noticeably faster single thread performance, usually comparable multi-threaded and it retails for far less than equally fast Xeons. Keep in mind that in your calculations, you forget that all these i7s and Xeons are hyperthreaded, aka the "effective" total GHz througoutput is maybe not doubled, but for sure you get "more" than what 6 threads with the same speed would do out of the 12T 3930K (similarly for the Quads).

 

I would not consider the W5580 set, unless it was vastly cheaper. Remember that you need 2x of those, and that will be extra 130W of power draw, server mobo, maybe specialized case, less effective speedstep technology (older), lower single threaded speed etc.

For a dedicated render node, the low single thread perf. can be tolarated, as it will be running only multithreaded stuff to begin with, but for your main workstation - and depending on your workflow - it might be lacking a lot.

 

A single W5580 will thus be easily slower than a 2600K that you can get again for the same price (and 100-120 mobos are easy to get retail for those), and as much as 50% slower than the 3930K when rendering.

[komyali]

Tnx for nice post now everything have sense

Ok I chose i7-3930K now I am looking for motherboard, what do I need to look on motherboard, this node is just to fast up rendering.

so this two gigabyte and second oneasus

is chipset important x79 or c602?

 

What else do I need? Power, cpu cooler,hdd,chassis fan, I will made DIY ( do it yourself ) chassis of plexiglass and LED and put it no wall

 

8.10.2012

 

need fast response on these

i7 3930K -583 $

asus-292$

 

calculate that I am in Bosnia and taxes are too high here plus shipping, is that ok price for new ?

Edited October 8, 2012 by komyali