My building is boring! Help!

[georgeworton]

Hello,

 

 

I am in need of some advice on improving my facade. I ideally would like to just photoshop over the image I have due to a closing in deadline.

 

To help with ideas, I need the facade to represent office and accomodation at different levels... has anyone got interesting or related precedence?

 

Thanks a lot

[RyderSK]

This is horrible on so many levels that I would like to help you somehow. Is this some school project ?

 

Skip the whole render, no amount of photoshop would make it anywhere close to watchable.

 

Draw it by pencil. Even if you absolutely can't draw either, it will look twice as good as what you can probably do in 3D. You can export basic linework for example from sketchup. But before you do that, lower the camera to human level (from ground), 3\4 corner angle, have a light coming from side.

 

Then do renders again after you watch some complete tutorial on how to tackle the project from scratch to finish. Good luck

[salvador]

Do what Juraj said about the camera. Then, if you have Max 2013, maximize your camera viewport and set the visual style to Graphite and clip the screen to bitmap (Alt + print screen or any clipping program).

Then paint some shadows on Photoshop. Fast, reliable and better looking.

 

You shouldn't embrace a task like you did without having some basic knowledge and workflow, specially with a deadline. Even for expert CG artist (me not included in this level) it takes time to produce a high quality render.

 

See this clip.

[Dave Buckley]

Seriously guys, WTF is wrong with you all. He hasn't asked you all to tell him what's poor about the image. He knows its dull, thats the whole point of the thread title. Juraj your advice is worse than the render.

 

What you need to do is go and have a look through the tutorials from Pixelflakes, they make superb images starting with much worse quality renders than this. And after all that is what your trying to do, your trying to produce an image by adding textures/light in PS. Also have a look at some of the Photoshop wizards such as Scott Baumberger/Vyonyx. (I've posted links below to some good starting points)

 

The one problem you can't fix in photoshop is the camera angle. Find a nicer angle and re-render. Don't worry about how bad it looks out of the frame buffer. I wouldn't even bother applying materials in max if your just going to photoshop everything. What you need is a good angle and some half decent base lighting which you can get from a simple daylight system. Learn to use Rendermask (you'll find it on scriptspot), and get a good understanding of perspective as you will need it when stretching/distorting textures in Photoshop.

 

http://www.pixelflakes.com/tutorial/

 

http://www.ronenbekerman.com/architectural-illustration-digital-2d-3d-watercolor-technique/

 

http://vyonyx.com/tutorial06-rendering-architecture-in-photoshop/

 

This should be a good starting point in order for you to improve the render. Hope it helps.

 

For the other guys, why waste your time typing responses that don't in any way relate to what the original poster has asked.

 

Everyone starts somewhere ...

 

I learnt most of everything I know from these forums when my renders were as bad as/if not worse than this. And back in the day the people who responded were actually helpful. But everything in this thread (except the original post) is exactly why I've stopped participating on the CGA Forums.

 

Rant over!!!

[Tommy L]

nnnnyyyaaaahhhh ok Dave. You're right, Ill take it down.

[Dave Buckley]

nnnnyyyaaaahhhh ok Dave. You're right, Ill take it down.

 

Ha I'll let you off Tom, you were one of the guys that used to help me.

[heni30]

I think some posters comment in a vein of "tough love", and for me that's ok. So many comments are generically pleasant and vague like some kind of hug-fest, especially in the gallery section and I think it's doing people a disservice. When someone asks for advice and it's obvious that they are embarrassingly clueless, they DO need a cold wake-up call so that they will have an accurate view of where they stand and what they have to do.

 

I will welcome direct bluntness anytime. If someone's feelings get hurt maybe they can switch to a less demanding vocation, like flipping burgers or something.

Edited December 5, 2012 by heni30

[Dave Buckley]

Tact? No-one appears to have it. I don't mind others telling others that there work is sub-standard. But at least back it up with some useful/helpful advice.

 

I'm not sure what this guy will get out of people saying 'You suck at arch viz, you'll never make it, go flip burgers'. How about, 'Look, there are a lot of things this render needs to improve other than just photoshopping over some office imagery. Firstly you need to go back to basics and understand ...' see the difference?

 

For some people this is just a hobby and so it doesn't need to be demanding. And for people just starting out, trying to gain some confidence with their work, where are they meant to post their images looking for help if they come on sites like this and read threads like this first.

[RyderSK]

Tact? No-one appears to have it. I don't mind others telling others that there work is sub-standard. But at least back it up with some useful/helpful advice.

 

I'm not sure what this guy will get out of people saying 'You suck at arch viz, you'll never make it, go flip burgers'. How about, 'Look, there are a lot of things this render needs to improve other than just photoshopping over some office imagery. Firstly you need to go back to basics and understand ...' see the difference?

 

For some people this is just a hobby and so it doesn't need to be demanding. And for people just starting out, trying to gain some confidence with their work, where are they meant to post their images looking for help if they come on sites like this and read threads like this first.

 

 

 

You are heavily overreacting and generalising too much. I said nothing offensive, and gave good, REALISTIC advice. You advised him to look up to Vyonyx/Pixelflakes/etc., which is unrealistic to learn from scratch now. They feature rough makings off, not full tutorials that explain and teach basics. Neither do they start from similar point. I advised him to continue with render after watching some easier, complete tutorial. (For example Evermotion Archviz dvd, Viscorbel exterior/interior training,etc )Everything you suggested, I suggested as well.

 

I wasn't even RUDE, simply calling it horrible, which it is, is normal. Again, you gave generic advice that even if he followed right now, where would it lead him ? It's beyond reparable at current state.

 

All that you made different, is slightly warmer speech, dear English gentleman. Truth is much more useful than tact. Why should everything be SUGERCOATED ? Are we in kindergarten ? People should be able to withstand truth the way it is. There were ZERO insults. Personal opinion is personal also, give your comment, why the feel to attack mine ?

 

 

 

Edit: And please, argument on this "Juraj your advice is worse than the render." your personal attack. For such "holier-than-thou" person that is pretty low imho. You advised practically less than I did, and even my first sentence is in rather friendly tone, you're just oversensitive. Re-read it please, I haven't edited it in any way, apart from others in this thread, who somehow must have felt ashamed after your holy righteousness came upon us.

Edited December 5, 2012 by RyderSK

[RyderSK]

And I would love to see you give example on this "tutorials from Pixelflakes, they make superb images starting with much worse quality renders than this"

 

Because that is so far-stretched ridiculous statement it doesn't need further comment.

 

Edit: with much worse quality renders than this this is the part I am asking to clarify.

Edited December 5, 2012 by RyderSK

[Scott Schroeder]

You mean this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA0YvxBPdYo

 

Maybe this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onC9LStOgc0

 

Granted, you have to have a very very high level of competency with Photoshop as well as a high level of artistic knowledge of color to achieve these looks. But it can be done.

[RyderSK]

And does it based on the posted render appear to you that the original poster has the necessary skill to follow this at current level and time frame ?

 

The advice posted by Dave was highly hypothetic and unrealistic. It was just "tactful". And as stated by Georgo, that is exactly the type of advice that gives the biggest disservice. There is a place for such talk, when we're little children and our parents support our actions despite complete lack of talent in particular task. Truly helpful people state you the truth, not pat you on the back. And again, re-read my initial post and pinpoint me my apparent rudeness and unhelpfulness.

 

Also, I am deeply sorry, but this is the mentioned "much worse render" ? I know well all of their tutorials and their work.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2012 by RyderSK

[Yama]

I am sorry but Juraj has a point. May his form of language not be the most diplomatic, but given the fact that George asked for what to do in a short time, I thought his idea about hand drawing the whole thing instead of photoshoping or re rendering it quite good.

Unless George has no skills in handdrawing then it gets difficult.

And Yes the Startup renders from pixalflake are WAY better than Georges (no offence here, George), so you can't realy compare thath. Plus Pixelflake is a huge pro which makes images like the ones above in 4 (!) hours. I could work a whole day and yould not get to what he achieves.

 

It is true that even with this rendering from George you could do a lot in Photoshop, but if you are not an expert in Photoshop, there is no way you gonna make it in short time.

 

My advice would be to go for a sketch style, as simple as possible. You better have not much stuff in your Picture, but this stuff is good quality, than a lot of details but all in bad quality.

 

I liked the tipp from Salvador, I would go in a direction like this......

 

so far from my side

 

Greets and be nice to each other

 

Yama

[Dave Buckley]

Personal opinion is personal also, give your comment, why the feel to attack mine ?

 

 

 

Edit: And please, argument on this "Juraj your advice is worse than the render." your personal attack. For such "holier-than-thou" person that is pretty low imho. You advised practically less than I did, and even my first sentence is in rather friendly tone, you're just oversensitive. Re-read it please, I haven't edited it in any way, apart from others in this thread, who somehow must have felt ashamed after your holy righteousness came upon us.

 

I was just giving my personal opinion and not sugar coating my opinion towards your post. But thank you for proving my point. You felt it was an attack. It wasn't it was just my opinion, but the way I worded it made you take it personally. So let's think how the original poster must feel ... see how people take things in different ways now?

 

I said your advice was terrible as you told him it wasn't repairable. The render is more than repairable but it doesn't necessarily mean it will make a good final image as it's lacking composition etc. But as bad render, it can be saved by Photoshop.

 

Also here is a link to one of Vyonyx base renders http://vyonyx.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Tut06_basic_3D_render.jpg in terms of a final render, the original poster has a better render, it has textures, it has context, it has colour it just doesn't have composition.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Dave Buckley

[Dave Buckley]

This is horrible on so many levels that I would like to help you somehow. Is this some school project ?

 

Then do renders again after you watch some complete tutorial on how to tackle the project from scratch to finish. Good luck

 

Ok so the first sentence is hugely insulting never mind patronising.

 

The second one is extremely vague, those Pixelflakes tutorials look pretty complete to me if I was a complete novice.

[Umesh Raut]

with so much of expert battle here I think the minimum I would like to add is that browse through as many images/photographs (including good renderings) as you can to get an idea of composition, form, color, aesthetics, etc. Trying to fix everything in Photoshop may not do all that good if you have less data/information to start with. Learning and using render elements would give you much much more control over the final (intended) output. This is enough to start.

[Dave Buckley]

Render Elements don't really come into it though if you're simply overlaying textures on a base model. If anything you only need masks. Elements are useful if you intend to adjust a very close to finished render in Photoshop. See the link i posted to Vyonyx to see what I mean. I don't see where any other elements (other than masks) would be useful in taking that base render to the final image?

[Dave Buckley]

I am sorry but Juraj has a point. May his form of language not be the most diplomatic, but given the fact that George asked for what to do in a short time, I thought his idea about hand drawing the whole thing instead of photoshoping or re rendering it quite good.

 

My original point was the way he went about his answer. Which you've agreed with

[carlotristan3d]

I'm with Juraj on this one. We should be able to call a spade a spade. He honestly said what he felt and he offered his advice. i would appreciate that over lip service.Although I get you Dave, we should put it in ways that doesn't offend the poster. But we should also be self-conscious of what we post, afterall we should be our own worst critic. if you are fishing for advice, you should be able to take criticism no matter how blunt or brutal. there was a time that forum users would honestly say what they felt. If it was bad, you get criticised if it was good, they'll praise. Now, most threads start with, good...great...fantastic, repeat,rinse. I miss the old cgarchitect forum.

[Dave Buckley]

That's fair enough. All I was really getting at was that I would find it quite offensive as a complete novice. I was also saying the advice wasn't very good as it didn't really address the guys question. The original poster simply asked if anyone had any good examples or reference points for office interior imagery that he could photoshop over. He didn't ask about exporting linework from Sketchup, or ask if he should resort to drawing it in pencil, nor did he ask for any tutorials from the likes of Viscorbel that deal with things purely in 3D. He asked about photoshopping imagery over his existing render. Until I'd posted nobody had addressed the original question, rendering the advice useless (imo). Anyway I've stressed my point enough, luckily I don't need to use these forums that much anymore and when I did need them, it was back in the good old cga forums that you mention.

[matthewspencer]

Ugh, this thread is already two pages long and only a couple posts have directly addressed the OP.

Now that points have been proven maybe everyone should delete non-pertinent responses, and leave their original critiques.

In other words, leave the room so you don't argue in front of your dinner guests.

[Nic H]

i stopped bothering to help when this site became amateur hour

[salvador]

i stopped bothering to help when this site became amateur hour

 

Ouch!

How was it before that?

____________________________

 

Ok. So, after re-reading the original request, I now think I didn't quite understand it: "office and accommodation at different levels"; I now think he wants to paste over offices and apartments pictures to fill the windows. If I'm understanding correctly, well, instead of pointing in directions to these imagery (which I don't have) I'd say: Don't do it. It's not going to help. And it's neither rude nor offensive to say it.

 

That been said, I for one, sense some irresponsibility just saying where to find what he wants. The building and the render, no pun intended, are way far from "boring"; we don't know what kind of expertise George has on what applications, so it's easy to just assume he is a novice in most subjects. And that's ok, but if we add a short deadline to the mix, I think it's logical and understandable to advise for a different approach. At least, that's what I remember my friends advised me in cases similar to this one.

 

I think everyone has a point here and don't see how the discussion is going to help any further. George, what do you have to say so far?

[Nic H]

I suppose in retrospect (perhaps through some rose tinted glasses) there used to be a lot more professional work posted here by various studios and talented users which I would always look forward to seeing - especially anything with breakdowns. There was a decent amount critical feedback and a level of respect towards others.

 

As a self taught cg artist back I got much of my help at the time from CGA as I was the only 3D person in my office.

Things changed with the rise of facebook and forum use slowly declined.

 

Now Id would honestly say that 90% of all work posted here and on places such a RB is pretty much just bland frumpy dumpy faux trendy horrid derivative rearrangements of library objects. Moronic users constantly copying each others scenes and styles, leaving a wasteland of people re posting the same tweaked 'cool white loft with an aged floor and stool in the foreground' scene again and again.

 

I now actually find some work in the gallery that looks like its been rendered in scanline that looks pretty fresh as an aesthetic (due to the army of generic stuff coming out) The technical floor / quality level has risen dramatically which is a great thing but just brings the lack of any artistic intention, talent and hard work into sharp focus.

 

The amount of assets and training available now is staggering - I would hope in the future there is a shift away from 'photoreal' as the preferred option of clients now it is becoming easier to achieve and there is room for much more variance in the visual interpretation of architecture.

 

I find it so strange that people will pay $4000 for an jpg to advertise a development or and idea - and that image gets tweaked to death by the clients in the process destroying any 'look' it had (needs more 'life', add people, brighten glass, remove all shadows etc) Imagine the painting or hand illustration you could get done for that by an artist? That would be something that has an inherent value due to its medium and execution and may actually say something more interesting of the building or environment.

 

Arch vis falls between 'illustration' and 'photography' all too often - it has elements of both but lacks the strength of medium inherent in a photo / painting. Maybe it will change and mature but I wouldn't hold my breath. There are of course some amazing artists around (PG, BBB, luxigon etc) who I have a lot of respect for and do their own thing very well indeed.

 

Anyway this is probably a rant for a thread entitled 'Arch-Vis Trends in 2013 - Has the whitewash floor had its day?'

[Tommy L]

Wow, maybe George's building is boring, but its sparked an interesting thread.