3ds Max 2013 and Illustrator logos: a nightmare.

[dsp_418]

Why is do difficult and, above all, why it doesn’t work?

I’ve zero problems importing the same logo in Softimage, Cinema 4D or Blender. When I import the same exact thing in Max, the nightmare begins.

First off, I want a logo with a decent, nice bevel. I apply the bevel modifier, is that the wrong method?

Second off, the spline doesn't look good until I click on adaptive, but then the Max sluggish like a mule on a hill.

Lastly, after a few workarounds to make the spline looking acceptable, to add the bevel and smooth the edges, I turn on the Level 2 on the bevel modifier: is that correct? Because if it is correct, it doesn't work, as the mesh is a mess, polygons cross each other. I know there's another option meant to prevent that, i.e. ‘Keep Lines From Crossing’. The thing is, as soon as I turn that on, Max freezes. I guess waiting for a few minutes could probably return something in the viewport, but that's just too much to have a beveled logo because at that point the viewport is just too slow.

 

So, am I approaching this in Max the wrong way, or is it just Max?

 

edit: by the way, look at this!

http://www.cineversity.com/vidplaylist/cv-artsmart

 

P.S. I posted the same question on the Area, hope is not a problem posting it here as well.

[Scott Schroeder]

You know, they have a script for this: http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/image-tracer-script

[dsp_418]

You know, they have a script for this: http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/image-tracer-script

 

Nice, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about importing vectors from Adobe Illustrator to 3ds Max.

Edited December 15, 2012 by dsp_418

[Josef Wienerroither]

You are mixing two problems here:

first, the pretty old AI importer in Max, which can only import Illustrator V8.0 files or so AFAIK. Once you got nice,clean splines imported with not too many knots, you can apply the various bevel/loft/lathe modifiers

If you got dirty splines with far to many knots, you have to clean them, otherwise the modifiers are unable to do their work in a clean way. There are several scripts for this on scriptspot which will help you with that with variable outcome ( eg. http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/cleanspline,http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/optimize-spline, etc.. ). I personally prefer plugins as they are of course faster and can be applied as modifier ( eg. http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/optimize-spline ). The best one in my experience is Optimize spline by Dieter Morgenroth, but sadly development seems to have stopped with Max 2009 ( http://www.maxplugins.de/r2009_files/dieter/OptimizeSpline_v1.0Max2009.zip )

 

For the modifiers or geometry creation process, it needs some experience which modifiers work best for your situation, and what parameters to tweak. Of course you can bring Max to it's knees by increasing parameters without thinking about the calculations required ...

[Scott Schroeder]

Nice, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about importing vectors from Adobe Illustrator to 3ds Max.

 

 

I'm just pointing out there are easier ways to get logos in Max. But if you want to continue to frustrate yourself beyond comprehension with your way, please carry on.

[dsp_418]

You are mixing two problems here:

first, the pretty old AI importer in Max, which can only import Illustrator V8.0 files or so AFAIK. Once you got nice,clean splines imported with not too many knots, you can apply the various bevel/loft/lathe modifiers

 

Yes, I only save as AI 8.0, same method for any 3D app actually (the only difference is for Blender, where you've to save a SVG).

 

YIf you got dirty splines with far to many knots, you have to clean them, otherwise the modifiers are unable to do their work in a clean way. There are several scripts for this on scriptspot which will help you with that with variable outcome ( eg. http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/cleanspline,http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/optimize-spline, etc.. ). I personally prefer plugins as they are of course faster and can be applied as modifier ( eg. http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/optimize-spline ). The best one in my experience is Optimize spline by Dieter Morgenroth, but sadly development seems to have stopped with Max 2009 ( http://www.maxplugins.de/r2009_files/dieter/OptimizeSpline_v1.0Max2009.zip )

 

For the modifiers or geometry creation process, it needs some experience which modifiers work best for your situation, and what parameters to tweak. Of course you can bring Max to it's knees by increasing parameters without thinking about the calculations required ...

 

I'll give the script a try as the plugin seems to be for max 2009 only (I'm on max 2013).

The strange thing is that the logo I'm working on is already very clean and comes with just a few points. Anyway, let's see if the script can help me with this. Thank you Josef for your help.

 

 

I'm just pointing out there are easier ways to get logos in Max. But if you want to continue to frustrate yourself beyond comprehension with your way, please carry on.

 

Scott, probably you're the one who's not comprehending what I'm talking about here. Please, let me explain it to you.

Here's the situation: you receive a logo from the client, it's a vector logo. Your method would assume that you convert the logo to a bitmap and then trace it in Max. First off, you're reinventing the wheel, second off you're getting the worst possible result as the traced version won't never be the same as the original vector logo, and lastly you're wasting you're time. Your method may works when you've to convert a bitmap to splines in case accuracy is not an issue. Try to change even small details in a client's logo and see how they react.

Edited December 16, 2012 by dsp_418

[Josef Wienerroither]

Marco:

If the spline already very clean in MAx ( only knots where necessary) there is probably a problem with knot allignemend ( eg. they might not sit all on the same, maybe some unwelded knots etc...). If you could post the Maxscene containing the spline i would like to have a look. maybe i could come up with some more ideas ...

[johannestiner]

Never had any problems importing something from illustrator to max.. Anyways, if you want a nice bevel on your spline work you shall use bevel profile modifier, all the control you need.

[dsp_418]

Thank you spacefrog, I can't post the logo I'm currently working on, but here's another simple test:

 

Logo_test.zip

 

johannestiner, nice tip about the bevel profile, even though it's a bit confusing.

First off it seems faster than the regular bevel, and that's promising, but I'm not sure I'm understanding how to control it. I've added a little spline rectangle to the scene and I've picked it from the bevel profile. To keep the lines from crossing I've had to make the width close to 0 (0.01), but then the logo looks like a stroke path and is not filled anymore (screengrab attached).

 

[johannestiner]

Its easier to just show some images how it works.

To make it as easy as possible i created the spline work ("logo") in the front view and made the profile in the top view so i don't need to rotate the gizmo of the bevel profile modifier.

First image

 

Here is another one with a different profile just to show, you really have good control with this

 

I hope that helps

Edited January 14, 2013 by johannestiner

[Josef Wienerroither]

Thanks...

I see someone at the Area already gave your demo files a try with good results, thus i spare my time to play arround with your file..

One thing as you mentioned Softimage is so easy in doing the same:

could you post your Softimage scene ? I'm a Softimage NOOP but toyed arroudn with the demo, i have some good understanding of the logic but how do you quickly bevel several layers like you can do with Max's bevel modifier ? And i noticed that Softimage treats each spline segment as one curve, how could i combine them ? Or simply post the Softimage scene of your test logo - i would like to see how Softimage does that more elegantly/performant compared to 3ds Max...

[dsp_418]

Its easier to just show some images how it works.

To make it as easy as possible i created the spline work ("logo") in the front view and made the profile in the top view so i don't need to rotate the gizmo of the bevel profile modifier.

First image

[...]

 

Here is another one with a different profile just to show, you really have good control with this

[...]

 

I hope that helps

 

That's very kind of you, thank you so much for helping!

It's more clear now, I'll try it right away.

 

One thing as you mentioned Softimage is so easy in doing the same:

could you post your Softimage scene ? I'm a Softimage NOOP but toyed arroudn with the demo, i have some good understanding of the logic but how do you quickly bevel several layers like you can do with Max's bevel modifier ? And i noticed that Softimage treats each spline segment as one curve, how could i combine them ? Or simply post the Softimage scene of your test logo - i would like to see how Softimage does that more elegantly/performant compared to 3ds Max...

 

Yes, I mentioned Softimage as well as Cinema 4D, but also Blender is very straightforward in the latest releases (SVG though).

 

Basically you import the eps/ai, as usual ver. 8. I downloaded one from here:

http://www.logotypes101.com/free_vector_logo/99286/Ryo_Yachts

 

From Poly. Mesh, Curves to Mesh, you get the mesh version of the logo.

Here are a few screen grabs, hope is not a problem since we're in the Max forum, but I think it's interesting to compare how similar techniques are handled in other apps.

 

 

Probably from the screen grabs is not very noticeable, but in the last one you may see Profile Curve, and that basically works as johannestiner explained so well.

[komyali]

ok how to import without all these knots(vartex) ?

[komyali]

meh...

You are talking too much and solution is simple, save logo again as ilustrator 8 version and at import in max you will not have problems with knots (vartex), it will be same as in ilustrator

[johannestiner]

I did a quick tutorial about the bevel profile, maybe it can help who ever might have a problem...

http://tiner.co/tutorials/3d-text-bevel-in-3ds-max/

Edited October 26, 2013 by johannestiner