Would you let a client over-pay???

[heni30]

I did some renderings for a new client - restaurant designers; not architects - who have never used renderings but a new company they are wooing has asked for them.

 

I did several interiors and now they are being asked to provide a plan perspective. Everything is already set up because the views were from opposite corners. All I have to do is remove the roof, move the camera overhead and hit render.

 

They are ready to pay for a full new rendering. An experienced architect would demand it be, say, half of the price of the original rendering and maybe justifiably so. Would you just consider this like a little present from heaven or would you say "No, no, it's really not that difficult, I'll charge you half."

Edited June 6, 2013 by heni30

[Justin Hunt]

I say a slightly reduced rate, it maybe simple to produce but you have to take into account you time spent setting this up, rendering and post work.

 

If you feel that these may be on going clients, I would consider a freebie to help with client relations.

 

jhv

[Sketchrender]

http://www.abookapart.com/products/design-is-a-job

 

Read it, it took you years to get the knowledge you have acquired.

Clients like this don't last for ever.

[Nils Norgren]

Turn the question around, what is it worth to them?

 

If you do discount, make sure they understand, and don't expect a discount the next time when the circumstances are less favorable. It is very hard to charge more in the future.

 

-N

[Ernest Burden III]

Turn the question around, what is it worth to them?

 

Turn it around again, and point out to Autodesk that they already put all those ones and zeros in a nice order so why are they charging you full price to 'borrow' them for a while. After all, someone already paid them a lot of money.

 

I typically do offer a lower fee when I already have the assets in place, and I do that for a hope that the client will see me as fair and be fair in return. But it does bite you sometimes.

 

I just did a retail street-level view which I had rendered previously with different storefront design, a year or two ago. The client asked for and got a good cost since, as he put it, I already had 'the bones' in place. But his new elevations had the building as 200' long and in the past he had it at 220'. I didn't notice since it had been a while, and after building all the new designs was surprised that they didn't drop in place with the old model. It took a lot of extra time to re-adjust everything.

 

So it's just 'remove the roof and hit render'. Easy, until they decide they want you to move some walls, change furniture, whatever. It's still a new image and you still have to support it fully so don't offer too much discount. As Nils says, it may be very valuable to them, including the fact that you can produce it quickly. That's worth something in itself.

[heni30]

http://www.abookapart.com/products/design-is-a-job

 

Read it, it took you years to get the knowledge you have acquired.

Clients like this don't last for ever.

 

Thanks. It looks like an interesting book - I'll check it out.

 

It reminds me of an anecdote where this woman is scoffing at the high price of a watercolor painting and she asks

the artist skeptically "How long did it take you to do this?"

 

He replies "Oh, about two hours and twenty............................years."

[RyderSK]

Turn it around again, and point out to Autodesk that they already put all those ones and zeros in a nice order so why are they charging you full price to 'borrow' them for a while. After all, someone already paid them a lot of money.

 

I typically do offer a lower fee when I already have the assets in place, and I do that for a hope that the client will see me as fair and be fair in return. But it does bite you sometimes.

 

I just did a retail street-level view which I had rendered previously with different storefront design, a year or two ago. The client asked for and got a good cost since, as he put it, I already had 'the bones' in place. But his new elevations had the building as 200' long and in the past he had it at 220'. I didn't notice since it had been a while, and after building all the new designs was surprised that they didn't drop in place with the old model. It took a lot of extra time to re-adjust everything.

 

So it's just 'remove the roof and hit render'. Easy, until they decide they want you to move some walls, change furniture, whatever. It's still a new image and you still have to support it fully so don't offer too much discount. As Nils says, it may be very valuable to them, including the fact that you can produce it quickly. That's worth something in itself.

 

 

It's exactly this. Convincing yourself it will be fast and easy so you'll do them goodwill will catch you... there is always something you can count on will go wrong. Setup will go awry, they will ask for change. Always account for unexpected.

 

But most importantly, don't play like you're charity ;- ) charge like you mean it, they profit from it, so should you.

[Dimitris Tolios]

In the intro of your email you already stated that these are neither regular customers, nor potential regulars. Just happened that one client of theirs requested a few shots.

 

If you did not specify price discounts past a # of images @ your contract, why should you make a discount...and if you would, would that be 50% off?

 

Unless you believe this will lure them doing more business with you in the immediate future, I would not bother.

 

You are selling a product...each model is - say - a cake in your bakery. You only serve fresh cake pieces, baking a new one every day.

In days you sell 1-2 pieces, you barely break even. In good days, you might have only a few pieces left to throw away, overall you made money. In a few great days, you sell the whole stock.

 

How often will a luxury retail store give you the last piece of cake for "free" or half off as "they had made their money" out of that batch already?

 

If you are regular client, the manager / owner might throw in a freebie for your kid etc, but you see the pattern.

[Guest dialog]

Keep in mind you still pay rent, electricity, etc even when you have no money coming in. Don't sell yourself short...

[John Dollus]

I'm reminded of a QA session with a Lightwave demo artist at Siggraph in the early 90's. When asked how much he would charge a client for an effect he pretty much created in a couple minutes, his response was simply, "As much as I can".

[heni30]

I know - I think I need to re-adjust my attitude.

 

Maybe $800/hr is not so bad after all. (no typo)

 

Basically it's like let's say you sell widgets for $50. Someone comes to your store having no idea how much widgets cost, but he needs one right away. So, instead of asking how much widgets cost, he says -

 

"Look, I need a widget but I refuse to pay a penny over $150. Take it or leave it." ???????

Edited June 7, 2013 by heni30

[notamondayfan]

Maybe you're undercharging in the first place?!

 

And remember, you're skilled in what you do, even if it is easy to you, it's taken years of training and experience, and isn't easy to someone else.

 

Dean

[Peter M. Gruhn]

I think it was Gary North I first read to say either charge full price or no charge.

 

So your next question is what's full price?

 

I quote jobs as first image of a scene and plus further images of the same scene. Scene is up to me and I will tell the client based on their inquiries what I think a new scene is. A new scene is significantly new modeling but of the same general area and same interior/exterior mode. A new scene is discounted some. Additional shots are at same additional shot rate. A new location is a new job.

 

Many jobs have spun off secondary or successive jobs. They get bid as new bids with my taking into account what I think the market can bear and existing useful assets.

 

A good rule of thumb in life is don't make explanations. Too many people will enter into discussion of your decisions based on their twist of your explanation. "I break up with you because you are a jerk." "Last week you said I was pushy. How can I be jerk and push at same time?" You waste your time and lose money.

[M V]

http://www.abookapart.com/products/design-is-a-job

 

Read it, it took you years to get the knowledge you have acquired.

Clients like this don't last for ever.

 

 

+1

 

To quote Mr Monteiro, "...The value of your work to a particular client depends on what the client has to gain from that work. And the client is not buying time from you. They are buying work. The value of that work is what you need to charge them for."

[davetyner]

What to charge is so subjective and is rooted in understanding:

 

-yourself

-your clients

-their market

-the value of your services to that market

 

Today, I can automate a task that a few years ago may have taken me an additional 100 hours. Does that mean I cut my rate? Nope! it just means I increase the volume.