Vray Render Nodes. The End........!

[neil poppleton]

Vray 3 release will now require puchase of additional render nodes and no longer will you have unlimited render slaves.

 

For those who are as old as me will remember this was the business plan of Brazil's render engine and also the end of Brazil render engine.

 

Do you think this business plan of Vray signifies the end of Vray and the adoption of 3dsMax integrated mental ray render engine which has unlimited render nodes ?

[Scott Schroeder]

It's been talked about in the 3.0 thread just below this one. There is also a rather gigantic thread on the chaos group forum about it. The general feeling I get, and the one I most agree with, is that most people understand why but would like to see the per node cost come down a bit.

 

It's a steep hill for Vray, since from the start they were always unlimited network and now they switch gears. It's funny that when mental ray had per node, Vray took over. Now they are swapping and we'll see if architects and mid to small studios switch back.

 

Though this also brings up the idea that render farms themselves will switch from more boxes but middle power to less boxes but more power per box. Less boxes means less per-node cost for Vray.

[Scott Schroeder]

Get your popcorn out, it is a good read: http://forums.chaosgroup.com/showthread.php?73922-Charging-for-render-nodes/page9

[neil poppleton]

Very interesting thread Scott.

[neil poppleton]

What do vray users think.

[Jason Matthews]

Honestly, I have always felt that the Vray pricing was very reasonable especially with all of the free upgrades in the 1.5 era. I am still using 1.5. I am a little turned off by the additional node pricing. I do not have a company behind me to pay the cost and I do 3D as a hobby. I have invested way too much in the way of content and learning curve to turn back now. I think many people may be in the same boat. That said, I will be upgrading to 2.0 and then to 3.0 afterwards. It will be another 2 or 3 years until I upgrade again.

 

I do not think Brazil or even Mental Ray had/has the same following as Vray and thus I believe people will make the upgrade when they have to.

[Justin Hunt]

Brazil died because they were too slow in development and people got fed up.

Renderfarms have a different licencing structure and are not affected by the new pricing.

As much as it saddens me mentalray is falling further behind (after a brief resurgence) and will really have to step up to be viable again.

 

Overall I dont think this will have too much of an effect to their existing customers, an little to new ones. Quality and speed are still a very strong draw card for Vray.

 

jhv

[Bruce Hart]

I could be wrong but I get the impression that Chaos have a lot more staff on hand these days for programming and answering the many and varied questions on the forums. You have to pay them all somehow I guess.

 

I don't think it's that bad - it's not like you have to do it every year

[neil poppleton]

Appreciate all the comments.

 

Im sure we will upgrade in time, as mentioned we have all invested time and effort in learning vray its probably too far down the road too change lanes....

[Justin Hunt]

Its never too later to change roads, as long as its for the right reasons and will ultimately get you to a better place

[beestee]

It's funny that when mental ray had per node, Vray took over. Now they are swapping and we'll see if architects and mid to small studios switch back.

 

We have switched from VRay to Mental Ray for the simple reason that we do not do enough 3d visualization to justify paying twice for render engines. Mental Ray comes with Max, and Max comes with our BDS subscription. It was either invest in learning Mental Ray to keep up with the times, or stick with the aging Vray 1.5...which is aging pretty well so far as there were not many features for us to miss in the newer versions.

 

Mental Ray is also implemented in Revit, and we are still in transition there for a large part of our work. I feel the implementation is weak currently, but it is only a matter of time until it gets strong enough to bury the revit to max workflow.

 

I think it is safe to assume that Mental Ray would regain some popularity as the frequency of paid updates and changes in policy increase with Vray.

[Devin Johnston]

We all know that software companies have found new ways to extract more money out of their customers without providing any additional value. This has taken the form of yearly updates and paid subscriptions, if you're a customer of Autodesk you understand how it works. Chaos probably got tired of seeing other companies benefit from this and figured what the hell they might as well jump on board the money train. I think they may have also put themselves in a bad position when they gave away all the intermediate updates to Vray for free. I don't think you can win as a business when you give away significant advances in your technology, not to mention the years of free technical support. Don't get me wrong I think what they're doing is despicable, I'm just looking for a reason they may be doing this. Unfortunately for many of us the cost of switching to a different render engine is way more expensive than going to a per node license. I'm sure they are counting on this to keep many of their customers around for a time but I think people are going to start slowly bleeding away from Vray. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, Vray's about to become the next Maxwell it's just a matter of time.

[Jeff Mottle]

I could be wrong but I get the impression that Chaos have a lot more staff on hand these days for programming and answering the many and varied questions on the forums. You have to pay them all somehow I guess.

 

Chaos Group have over 100 employees. I've been to their offices in Sofia, Bulgaria a few times. They are a big company.

 

I don't think the switch to per node costs has anything to do with trying to gouge people because they can. They are a business and for many many years have pretty much given updates, support away for free. They have to remain sustainable and generally those who need render nodes are making more money and can afford the upgrade cost. Realistically a few hundred or few thousand dollars extra in the grand scheme of things, as a professional in this industry, should not be too burdensome if you are making your living from the product. Of course no one likes to pay more or change, but I certainly don't see this as the downfall or beginning of the end of the company.

[Justin Hunt]

and its that exact same argument, a relatively small fee increase wont hurt, that is hurting, because each and every piece of software we use is doing it, yet our fees cant go up in the same way.

 

I am not saying they cant/shouldn't be making a profit, rather it is making it harder for us to make a profit too.

 

Slowly we are getting back to the days of a higher entry price to do business.

 

jhv

[neil poppleton]

I guess exisitng customers, or the majority will pay up and stay with Vray, but Im sure the new kids on the block will go down other avenues such as mental ray built into max.

 

Maybe they are missing the 10 - 15 year long term view.