Render just not looking right, is it my settings?

[TomD_Arch]

Sorry if this should have gone in "Work in Progress", but not really looking for a critique, more technical advice. So if it needs to be moved let me know.

 

I have been working this rendering for a little while now trying to tweak settings. It's just not popping the way I want it to. I really am trying to get this more in the catagory of photorealistic, and am questioning my own skills in terms of lighting, post-production., etc.

 

I have tried rendering at larger resolutions too, and it only helps a tiny bit. I have the typical render elements also(AO, reflection, material ID, z-depth, etc.), but not applied in this image.

 

I can also set-up a google drive folder with the model if anyone wants to take a stab at it.

 

[Corey Beaulieu]

You sound like a client, "Make it Pop!"

 

The one thing that I notice is that interior images are taken with a different approach. Exposure-wise, I think a more common approach would be to assume that the interior lights are not on or low and imagine a more long exposure setup. That would leave the exterior burned out and low on detail, but draw out a contrasted inside. Materials will then be really sharp and bright on their highlights, but rich and saturated in their indirect state.

 

Right now it seems really flat. The lighting is all from the interior and the exterior is lit by the sun. All of the materials have an even brightness and the reflections are all a similar white color. Maybe find a sun angle that casts light in through the windows in an interesting way and kill most if not all of the interior down lights. Your exposure will need to come down and that should give you a better burn EXT and rich INT. I would also find a way to override the reflection of just your overall sky with a real image of a sky. That will give you a more interesting reflection and more complex shadows.

 

Lastly, realism is the details. as long as the brick close up to the camera are displaced or actual geometry, once your AO pass goes on, you will get a lot more realism. You are just looking at a flat beauty pass that needs some contrast gradients and general richness added.

[Scott Schroeder]

Your color choice kills the "Pop!" factor as well. You have whites, near whites, and muted colors. You can spend 1,000 years on the lighting and technical settings but if you aren't using the right color combinations you'll never get that zazz factor.

 

Why do you think the black furniture, white walls and bleached wood floor renders are pretty much done by everyone these days or why Hollywood has beaten to death the orange and teal color scheme?

[TomD_Arch]

Well this is redone per suggestions. I did a touch of post-production with AO, z-depth, and specular. As for the material colors, I am limited in terms of how much altering I can do as these are based on paint chips (scanned and then grabbed RGB values), or high res. maps of tiles etc. I noticed the artifacts on the floor right away and I am guessing a little high FG setting will eliminate those.

 

[Corey Beaulieu]

Can you not angle the sun so that it come in through the window?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=interior&espvd=210&es_sm=93&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&authuser=0&ei=jHZUUo7iApTO9ASR9oCADQ

 

These images are all in line with what I was trying to say... they have little to no interior lights and they utilize the sun/glare/glow from windows to illuminate the shot.

 

I would try some Photmetric lights on the left side wall for shape and a little light and then have the sun angling in from the right. Or at least I would start there. It's a tough camera angle though, I'm not sure what the goal is.

[Tommy L]

Your render needs a story...

Right now you have a slightly off perpendicular shot. So your horizontal lines are just not quite horizontal wehich is kinda ugly. Either go for calm horizontality or dynamic perspective in your composition.

You need o find a similar shot which you like and then examine what you like about it. Its not your settings, its your composition.

Oh, and even opning the doors might help. Connect the viewr to the outside and it will also give a visual clue via the tonal difference between glazing and no glazing.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Tommy L

[TomD_Arch]

So these are some of the photo references I grabbed during pre-production. The angle was set in stone by my boss when were doing a fast render in Revit at the beginning of the project to confirm design intents and he feel in love with the view of the interior courtyard from inside the building. He also insists that the front security desk has to be in the frame to let the viewer orient themselves in the building. I like the open door idea, maybe add a person or two coming in from, or going out to the courtyard.

 

The shadows, until you said something I really hadn't noticed, and was like yeah, those show-up in just the model window with my display settings, where did they go? I went to move the sky-portal that is there and now 3ds max is hanging. Might have to work on this at home a little tonight.

 

This is my first REAL attempt at producing a photorealistic rendering and am just a little disappointed in my own skill-set and knowledge base, and so to avoid getting bogged-down in self-doubt I am blaming the program.

 

[heni30]

I had to learn post lighting effects when my client kept saying "it looks great! now just turn the lights on"

 

The floor, walls, ceiling, back wall and counter top are all on separate layers and adjusted as needed.

Edited October 8, 2013 by heni30

[Jamie Cardoso]

Hi Thomas,

 

The photo references you have got are really great reference points, in terms of art direction. In fact, I have saved them in my own library of photo references. I hope you don't mind!:0)

 

As it has been suggested earlier, there's lack of depth/shadows. It is attributed mainly to the position of your lights in scene, and/or lack of it, especially in the foreground.

Otherwise, your renders would have had more shadows, and a clearer contrast between bright and dark areas!

This is one of many reasons I personally prefer to start lighting a scene that is completely dark; with an override grey/white material enabled.

From there, I would begin adding and test rendering every single new light created. This will prevent a scene from accidently becoming too overexposed with too many lights!

In addition, ensure that there's enough distance/space between each light created in order to emulate "pools" of light (e.g. depth)!

Users also use the "vignetting" effect to help reinforce the above mentioned "look/feel" (e.g. depth)!

Once satisfied with the depth/shadows in the scene, you can turn off the override material, and begin working on the materials. To help speed up the test renders you can turn off some the lights and render regions of relevant areas of your scene!

 

While some the above subjects have been discussed in detail in my latest book, I still went on to create a blog post, that covers similar topics that were omitted, due to the total page count!

 

I am certain you will find the below link very useful indeed:

 

http://jamiecardoso-mentalray.blogspot.cz/2013/05/photorealistic-rendering-with-vray-or.html

 

Furthermore, just by looking at your beautiful photo references, I can quickly assess that NOT all surfaces in the photo are reflecting the same amount of energy (e.g. unevenness).

To quickly emulate this fantastic effect in Max, simply apply a greyscale texture to the "Glossiness" and/or to the "reflectivity" toggle/s. Please note that, the more contrast the greyscale texture has, the less diffused the reflections will be (e.g. sharp reflections)!

I often control the greyscale contrast in Photoshop, using adjustment layers such as "Hue/saturation"; "Levels"; "Curves"; etc.

 

Oh, make the bump or displacement more noticeable on surfaces, especially for those close to the camera!

 

In summary, you should pay extract attention (observant) on the physical properties of all the real materials you're trying to emulate in your 3d scene(e.g. metal, light fixtures, table tops, walls, floors, etc.).

 

Again, while some the above subjects were discussed in detail in my latest book, I still went on to create a blog post, covering similar subjects that were omitted, due to the total page count!

 

I am also confident you will find the below link very useful indeed:

 

http://jamiecardoso-mentalray.blogspot.cz/2011/03/tackling-unrealistic-materials.html

 

Finally, after checking all the above, if you're still facing difficulties, do ping me or send me the 3Ds file!

 

Kind Regards

 

Jamie

 

.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Jamie Cardoso

[TomD_Arch]

After adjusting the time of day to bring sunlight in the door from courtyard I realized the large plane mr SKY PORTAL I created was blocking the sun.

Lesson/realization for the day: You have to model individual mr SKY PORTALS for each pane of glazing.

[TomD_Arch]

This is the latest, after taking above comments into consideration. Still not happy with this result. Turned artificial lights off except for one just out of camera behind the reception desk. changed angle of sun. tweaked a few of the materials. Swapped in 'bump' on brick wall to replace the 'displacement' shader I had setup. Gave a shot at using the z-depth to crate a little lense blur.

 

Also, should I move this post over to "Gallery:W.I.P.?" I feel like I am getting more exposure here, but also want to be a good poster and post in the correct sub-forums.

 

-zdepth

-no zdepth

-bare render

[Jamie Cardoso]

Hi Thomas,

 

In my humble opinion, I believe you should pause on the lights for now; and begin concentrating on the materials: I can assure you it will begin to look photo real...almost instantaneously!

 

1- Focus first on the foreground materials and work your way toward the ones in the distance. Please remember that every material needs to resemble something our eyes are accustomed to seeing (e.g. photo like!)

 

Metalic materials often look real with "Arch & Design" shader, from the word go!

 

a) The brick wall material is not looking real because its surface and texture are too even throughout (e.g. NOT broken up)

You can "brake up" its surface by adding multiple noise(greyscale) type textures to its bump channels, using the "adsk_Utility_Mix3Bump shader", as mentioned in the book. Also use a greyscale version of the diffuse texture!

 

To break up its texture, you can use the techniques mentioned previously and refer to the link posted earlier (e.g. a surface/texture reflects light unevenly throughout).

 

b)The textures need to be realistic as described in my link (e.g. real photos of an extensive surface), or/and hand painted in Photoshop. I personally prefer to take my own photos for specific surfaces; otherwise go to http://www.cgtextures.com/.

 

c)Sharpen the texture with 3Ds Max "Blur" function, if not sharp enough by default (it may take slightly longer to render as result).

 

d)Add the "round corners" function in all textures to chamfer them.

 

e) You can use the above techniques on pretty much most objects in the scene (Floor, worktop, ceiling, courtyard, etc).

 

f) The window frames are not resembling any material our eyes are accustomed to seeing (e.g. perhaps it should be a dark shiny metal?).

 

g)The ceiling should be slightly reflective to be more interesting (use a good photo reference to see how a nice reflective ceiling "behaves"). I can provide you some, if you like.

 

h) The trees need a bit of depth and colour variations(too even at the moment). For depth, use the ambient occlusion directly in the diffuse toggle.

For colour variation on the leafs, you can apply a real photo of tree leafs. This should break up the current colour "evenness"!

 

i) Perhaps you should add more reflectivity on the glass to make the scene more interesting. Use a reflection passes.

 

j) the ceiling light fixtures are not resembling anything I am accustomed to seeing (not realistic)

 

k) The ceiling frames should be reflective (e.g. chrome)?

 

l) perhaps add very subtle scratches on the table top (along with the other irregularities mentioned earlier)?

 

After making every material in the camera view look photo real; you can then go back to improving the lights further:

 

In the foreground, you should perhaps add beams of light against the brick to suggest artificial light/s in the foreground, and to break up the current light "evenness" in the scene. You could repeat this throughout the scene to "break it up" further.

Please note that, due to your camera/scene exposure, you may need to "bump up" the values of the artificial lights in order to make any impact in the scene.

Furthermore, create key light/s with the "mental ray light shader" as described in my previous link, to help add more colour and to "break up" the lighting "evenness" further.

 

You could even plug some of your photo reference images into the "mental ray light shader" for colour, etc.

 

In addition, the objects in the scene could do with more detailing (realistic modelling):

 

a)add door handles and shadow gaps

 

b)add some random dead leafs/ litter in the courtyard (very subtle)

 

c)add fire detector/s in the ceiling

 

d) add detail to the entire table unit in the foreground

 

e) there's an open ceiling in the foreground, that doesn't look correct/realistic

 

f) add subtle geometry irregularities(realistic) in the ceiling corner to the left side

 

g) add a random object/s(realistic) on the table top, with subtlety

 

h) add detail (objects) in the empty space, in the distant left side

 

I) add air ventilators to the ceiling

 

All the small details mentioned above will make the scene more realistic. As mentioned earlier, use a nice photo reference for every single material/model you're trying to emulate in your scene.

This will help you refer back to it for accuracy.

In my case, in addition to finding good photo references over the internet or through the client, I also take photos of my own textures with my Iphone, or with a good camera; and apply them as textures.

Your surfaces will just look REAL as result, period!

 

 

For post-production (e.g. levels, curves, people, DOF, vignette, chromatic aberration, etc), you could use some of the techniques highlighted in the book.

 

Having said, it's obvious that each 3d scene/project will present itself with different challenges. However, if you "nail down" some of the basics mentioned earlier and on previous posts, you're bound to end up with a very photorealistic image in no time!

 

I hope the above was helpful (...I don't think I can add more to this thread )!

 

Ta

 

Jamie

Edited October 12, 2013 by Jamie Cardoso

[Tommy L]

Composition, composition, composition...looks like it was shot with a handheld disposable camera by a blind retard.

 

Straighten your lines.

Dont use DOF (until you resolve all your other issues)

Dont shine the sun into the space:

Have the sun coming over your shoulder (I know, its not an exterior but hear me out). Right now all your materials inside the space have to be in shadow. They just have to be. So dont throw some sun on the ground, it hurts everything else. You want a soft light coming from the window, no direct light. Just the skylight. This means you can use GI to get nice soft lighting inside. It also enables you to blow out the outside and use some interesting lens effects on things like the leaves on the trees.

You'd only want the sun coming in if it was a dawn/dusk shot to get some color play between orange and blue and some rim light. Or if it was coming in from the side. Doesnt make sense here.