Non paying client - Need some advice

[Eezo]

So I'm having trouble with a client and I need some advise.

 

I've been working with a client now since about May, I've completed 5 or 6 jobs for him now and although payment has never been quick it has always turned up eventually.

 

I finished the last few projects for him about 7 or 8 weeks ago, I've been paid for the main bulk of the work but there is still payment for some amendments outstanding.

 

He keeps promising me payment dates that come and go, it't been going on like this for some weeks now.

 

He will no longer take my calls and hangs up on me when I try to contact him but will then text me to say he will email me later.

 

It's only a matter of about £600 but I am a small one man band who is just starting out, I don't have many clients at this point and frankly, I need the money!

 

Has anyone been in a similar situation and what advice would you give me?

[M V]

I am going through this same thing right now with a client (going on 75 days past due). Unfortunately, this does happen. I would think that he simply doesn't have the funds to pay you, but if he did, he would, based on the fact that he has paid you in the past. It's kind of like when you are waiting for a deadbeat client to pay you and the credit card company starts calling you for their payment.

 

The best line of defense is to send only low res watermarked images until all fees are paid.

[CliveG]

Most of my work comes from abroad and is very much based on trust.

 

99% pay promptly on invoice, but like Carl I had one slow on the fourth or fifth job then just not pay anymore. They were clearly happy with the work as it became their banner page of their website despite it still belonging to me. I am always on super tight deadlines and so watermarking just isn't feasible.

 

Again like Carl,it's not a lot of money but as this particular company is based in the US, I wonder if it's ethical, practical or even legal to name and shame on a forum such as this to perhaps protect others from getting ripped off.

 

It's a thought anyway. I doubt it's viable.

 

Oh and as an aside I know people who know the directors and say they are very wealthy, so I don't even think it's a lack of funds, it's just because they can!

[Scott Schroeder]

What does your contract and invoice say about scheduled payment?

[CliveG]

What does your contract and invoice say about scheduled payment?

 

This thread isn't really about my situation, I was just providing a bit of background in order to offer a suggestion for discussion.

 

But I'd guess in both mine and Carl's situation the client has clearly just ignored whatever terms are included in contract / invoice.

 

As I say in my case it's very much an agreement based on trust, there is no formal contract and so it is a recipe for problems I readily agree. However it's just how I've worked for 25 years or so. I wouldn't recommend someone start up this way!

 

As an aside, I am very sanguine about this, I am not bitter or twisted about it, It actually makes me feel strangely superior to the people who did this in that my morals and ethics are clearly far above theirs. It's business and I'm happy to move on.... my contribution to the discussion is really down to whether there is merit in a naming / shaming sticky to try and marginalise these clients from our CG community.

Edited October 17, 2013 by CliveG

[stuartkemp]

I suppose your course of action depends pretty much on whether you have a contract or not, and whether you want to continue your working relationship with said client.

 

If you've got a contract and are sick of being messed about then take them to court over it.

 

If you don't have a contract and/or want to continue working for them in the future then you'll just have to wait it out I guess.

 

I think maybe making sure you're not put it in this position in the first place is the discussion that should be taking place (no disrespect or offence intended).

 

As for naming and shaming clients who don't pay, as satisfying as it may be, I'm not sure it's the right way to go about it. As said above, taking the proper steps to prevent getting ourselves into these situations in the first place is the way to go.

 

Someone posted a link to a great book on here a while ago called 'Design is a Job' by Mike Monteiro that is well worth a read and the author also talks a lot about contracts on this video: http://vimeo.com/m/22053820

 

Anyways apologies for going off on a bit of a tangent, and good luck!

[heni30]

I would definitely put a warning out there just to save someone else the aggravation of having to go through the same negative experience.

I would warn the client first - so that it's in their power to avoid the situation. It has nothing to do with shaming the client - it's covering each others' backs.

 

I had an idiot call me to do a job 2 years after stiffing me. He didn't remember that he hadn't paid me. I sent him a copy of the unpaid invoice and I never heard from him again.

 

Let's have that name!

[CliveG]

I would warn the client first - so that it's in their power to avoid the situation.

 

Good idea George, that may actually get a better response than the repeat invoices and phone calls!

 

One for Carl to try too; if there's a chance that they may get stonewalled when approaching the next guy they may re-evaluate!

 

Cheers

[Nic H]

hire bikies

[Eezo]

Unfortunately I don't have a contract, perhaps that's a little foolish. I have been considering working with a contract for a while but when you're just starting out on your own, you need as much work as you can get and you don't want to scare off potential clients. Perhaps that's something I need to re-evaluate.

 

With this particular client we had agreed on payment 2 weeks after invoicing, I finally got an email out of him last night saying he will pay me as soon as he's able, so I can only assume he doesn't have the funds at present!

[notamondayfan]

Hi Carl,

 

Firstly, get a contract, even if it only states what services you are offering, deliverable and payment terms. When I first started up I was like you, sceptical if a contract was worth it and would it scare clients off, but I persevered, and always have contract. If a client is put off by signing even a basic contract, then you really don't want to be working with them anyway. If anything, a good looking, nicely worded contract makes you look professional, so really don't be afraid of sending clients contracts.

 

Secondly, if your client is still in contact with you, and you have emails saying it will be paid, then be as patient as possible. He has said he will pay, and I bet he feels crap about the situation. You might want to put a deadline on it, and then look at ways of getting your money, but firstly try and negotiate with your client. Perhaps they can afford half now, and half in 4 weeks? Offer to accept staged payments, it shows you're reasonable.

 

Lastly, if you can't get any money out of them, then look at the Small Claims Court. It's ideal for cases like this where the amount isn't large, but still substantial enough to pursue it. I think you should easily win a case, even without a formal contract, as you have emails in which your client acknowledges he owes you money, and you have proof the work has been complete.

 

Good luck with it all!

 

Dean

[Sketchrender]

It happens a lot over in Ireland, and in the past few years here, many a man has gone to the office on Monday morning and just cold called and tell him your not leaving till he pays you.

 

I had one guy the usual ones that won't pay, arrived to the meeting in a Merc, and claimed to be broke when it came to the bill.

I did a bit of searching on line and found out from the drawings , the clients name and told him I would go directly to the client if he didn't pay up.

Base rule for me is , if they try and pull a fast one , you have to be professional, but be just a crafty.

 

Most clients have already paid them, so it would be a very embarrassing situation if you went to them.

 

Phil

[unrinoceronte]

So most people agree that a contract is "essential" for this. Altough i think even having that you will never now with new or old clients... At least with old you more probably now it is true that they are in trouble and do not have money to pay you, but with a new one is always a leap of faith....My recommendation, try to build as much as possible long term relations with few clients....

 

Now that the CONTRACT word is out, do some of you guys have some good contracts that you can share with the rest of us? It will be good to see what are the things and specifics of what is established there in the standard practices of Arch Viz... I am curious about all the terms... Since my clients are only "known" close clients for me, i only specify the cost and time in an email...

[Scott Schroeder]

I guess I have to post this again for those of you who think that leaving 600 bucks on the table is "just business". Since I paid a little bit extra and had a lawyer look over my contracts, I have never once in the last 2 years had a client go any later on their payment than a few days and they made me aware that they would be late. At the very worst they paid out the last installment in two smaller chunks. I never had to go begging, even with my new clients. That slight lawyer cost has paid off in dividends in the last 2 years. Having a professional looking contract gives the illusion that you really mean business. Handing one to them that is poorly written and has coffee stains on it makes them think they can walk all over you.

 

They don't pay you because they know they can get away with it and you'll do nothing to them. Not working with a contract is just easy cheese for them since you have just given them all of your power. If a client won't work with you because you want them to sign a contract that states they will pay you x dollars on x day, then screw that client in the ear. That is a person you clearly don't want to work with.

 

Some clients you will work for are waiting to be paid by their client, so you may have to wait longer than the terms stated. But as Dean said, you need to have patience and make sure you are keeping in dialog with them about it.

 

I know this sounds harsh, but this is the reason why we have clients that think that they can walk over freelancers. Don't be so desperate for work that you'll sell yourself into slavery.

 

Watch it, re-watch it, then go buy his book. Some great quotes from the talk,

 

On the subject of trust vs contract; "When you do business you don't want to trust them to pay you, you want to make sure you get paid."

 

On the subject of getting a lawyer to review your contract; "You are at the point when you need a lawyer when you decide to stop being a design amateur and become a design professional"

 

On the subject of starting work without a contract; "Starting work without a contract is like putting on a condom after you've taken a home pregnancy test."

 

F*ck you, pay me.