Laptop and LCD Projectors Video Issues

[Jeff Mottle]

Hi all,

 

I'm going to be speaking/moderating a panel at the upcoming Drawing from Providence Conference at the end of the month, but wanted to run a technical issue I had at SIGGRAPH past everyone. Those of you that attended the SIGGRAPH party this year will have witnessed a few moments of panic while we ran into some video issues. The problem occured while my Toshiba Laptop was hooked up to an LCD projector using the d-sub external monitor port. The dektop and all applications showed up fine, but the video signal from within Windows Media Player, WIN-DVD and QuickTime Player all showed up as black. I could see the video on the actual screen, but for some reason this signal was not being shown though the LCD projector. A couple people at the event had mentioned having witnessed this themselves, but we never found resolution. We were able to get it working on another laptop, but not mine. I just want to avoid this happening again as my presentation is very much video based.

 

Has anyone seen this, or found a solution for this problem?

[Ernest Burden III]

Be sure to ask about your set-up and test time. I did.

 

My laptop is a Dell, and I have seen the same thing. It's actually pretty simple. There is one of the Function buttons (F8 maybe?) that swaps the display to the port. One way blanks the LCD screen and ports all display to the video projector. I prefer it stays on. There is a way to do both, as I've seen it done on my own laptop by my neighbor. He had borrowed a projector and we have done 'movie night' in his driveway, shining a kid's DVD onto his garage.

 

I'll ask him what he did...now if he's home.

 

Are you presenting from PowerPoint?

 

I guess I had better buy it on Monday and learn it for my talk Friday at the RISD conference.

[Ernest Burden III]

OK, the procedure on the Dell is to hold the 'function' key and hit the F8 button (which on mine is labeled LCD/CRT). On my neighbors work Sharp laptop it's the F5 button, but is usually F4 or F8 in combo with the 'function' key.

 

Apparently you toggle between screen only/projector only/screen&projector by hitting the same keys again, and wait while the projector auto-finds the signal.

 

I should probably test this myself by connecting to someones projector (hey, anybody got a projector?).

[Jeff Mottle]

Hey Ernest,

 

I know what you are describing being able to direct the output to one or both the LCD projector and Laptop screen, but that is not what I meant. I could see the desktop on both the projected image from thr LCD and on the Laptop screen, BUT, when I played a video the player would show up on both screens however the actual video would not. On the projected image I saw the player and not video within the player (There was just a black box). On the Laptop screen I saw both the player AND the video in the player. Does that make sense?

[Ernest Burden III]

On the Laptop screen I saw both the player AND the video in the player. Does that make sense?

 

Yes. That's what happened, and it was fixed by the F thing.

 

But I will test it, hopefully Monday, when I go into NYC to gather material for my talk from my father. He has a projector, I think.

 

Actually, I don't need a projector, just another monitor--same connector. I'll do that tonight or tomorrow. You can do the same.

[Jeff Mottle]

Interesting. That reminds me of another issue with the F key switch. Normally I was given the option for like 5 different outputs, but at SIGGRAPH I was only given two. I'm not sure where the others went and what triggered them to not display. Wish I had a projector to test this on. I wonder if using a monitor would simulate this properly.

[Ernest Burden III]

Tested.

 

What I learned is that there is indeed an issue with playing MediaPlayer content AND DVD content on BOTH the laptop screen and the projector/second monitor. One of them is going to be blanked. So you can have the display show the desktop on both (with the function + F8 on the Dell) but media will play on only one of them. You can select which one, just not both at th same time. I played a Star Wars DVD and one of my own .avi files.

 

I was able to play a movie trailer from the web on both. MP must be bending over a sink for Hollywood.

 

I was able to play Quicktime video on both at the same time, so if you convert to .mov you may be OK.

 

Oh, and by the way, you should go to display>advanced>displays to turn on the external monitor in addition to the LCD display. You can set either one to primary, I find. Just enable it for that port to work.

[Jeff Mottle]

OK, I'm getting there on figuring this out thanks to your feedback and a normal monitor that behaves EXACTLY like the problems I was having. Where exatly did you change this setting where you could set which monitor could show the video? When you did that you were able to just re-direct where the WMP video was shown or the entire video signal? If I choose just CRT or just LCD I can get the WMP video to show up, but never both at the same time.

 

I did discover one very interesting thing. NEVER just plug and play the video cable. While it works it seems to lock the video signal to that device. For example before I plug in the monitor I had 5 video signal output options (LCD/LCD+CRT/CRT/TV+LCD/TV) If I connect the video display while the laptop is on and switch to LCD+CRT and then try to change it (Fn+F5 on a Toshiba) then the only option that is then available is LCD+CRT, the rest all disapear. That is what happened to me at SIGGRAPH. The key is to make sure you plug in the Video display and then turn on the computer. Helps if you read the manual!

 

Anyway, All that I need to know is if I've misunderstood what you have done and there is a way to have the signal show up on both displays and then allow you to choose which one will show the video signal from within the player.

 

PS. I think you are correct in that the movie industry has something to do with this, although I can't image what limiting the number outputs would affect anything, but making my life difficult.

[Jeff Mottle]

Ok I correct my last comment about having to make sure the external monitor need to be plugged in before you turn in on. It turns out that by running a video with WINDVD the OS actually locks the signal output options both using the Fn key switch AND the Clone/Dual View Option in the Advanced Display properties.

 

I did not realize this but when you use WINDVD and choose LCD+CRT with the Fn Key you are actually switching the video mode to Monitor clone. Makes sense, but I didn't know the two were linked like that.

 

If you use WMP the video signal is still locked to only one output, BUT you can still switch where you want the entire signal to go. Seems some companies take the copyright issue further than others.

[Ernest Burden III]

Anyway, All that I need to know is if I've misunderstood what you have done and there is a way to have the signal show up on both displays and then allow you to choose which one will show the video signal from within the player.

 

I hope I've been clear. I was able to have the desktop show on both the laptop and the external monitor at the same time. But playing a movie via WinDVD (don't have PowerDVD installed on that machine--I wonder if it is more forgiving as it is with still captures?) forced me to choose which of the two would display the movie and which the black window. Using the key combo allowed me to toggle and choose.

 

Also, you are right about how they locked modes to each other.

 

PS. I think you are correct in that the movie industry has something to do with this, although I can't image what limiting the number outputs would affect anything, but making my life difficult.

 

And of course it doesn't just behave that way playing Star Wars, but ANY video, even my own. Bastards.

[Jeff Mottle]

Hey Ernest,

 

I found out tonight that the multiscreen player issues are a DirectDraw/Video Card issue, not a M$ DRM issue.

 

For my presentation I'll be using the Camtasia Player as this way I can prerecord some of my demos to I can scrub the playback and speed up long processing times. Also worth noting is that the Camtasia player WILL play on both screens and can play several different formats.

 

http://www.techsmith.com/

[Elliot]

Ernest and Jeff,

 

I will be doing a presentation very soon to a large audience. I have an hour and need to remain focused on timing. Is there a way to show on the projector the current slide show image while on the laptop being an image in advance.

 

I want the laptop to be one slide ahead of the audience. I think there is way to do this but I cant find the switch.

 

Another question, is there a way to link two presentation while using two projectors. I used to do this any years ago with regular slide projectors... It worked very good.....

 

Jeff you may have experience with this one. I think we have the same laptops. When I loaded XP on my old Toshiba Laptop (5105-S901, I disabled most of the function switches they installed at the factory. Could this prevent me from doing what I am trying to do. Right now I can see the show on the projector and the Power Point on the Laptop.

 

Thanks

Elliot

[Ernest Burden III]

I will be doing a presentation very soon to a large audience. I have an hour and need to remain focused on timing. Is there a way to show on the projector the current slide show image while on the laptop being an image in advance.

 

My presentation went pretty well, and thank you for asking.

 

No, I don't think you can show one slide ahead. That would be great, but not in the PowerPoint playbook, nor any other software I have heard of. It would require two different video signals from one video card.

 

What I had TRIED to do, but failed to, was print out my slide sequence, 9 slides to a sheet. That way I could monitor what was coming up. I ran out of time and could not find a Kinko's kinda place, even though I was at an architecture school.

 

The result of not having that printout is that you end up responding too much to what is projected instead of setting up the next image in advance. It's a small difference but it threw me a bit, made me more nervous.

 

So it goes.

 

Another tool for timing I used was to have my time laid out vertically on a 14" sheet, divided into 5 minute blocks with notes about where I should be in my program. I taped my watch to the laptop and in a fit of brilliance I drew clock faces on the timing sheet so I wouldn't have to mentally convert :30 to what the watch would show. But be warned--all efforts to outsmart chaos are destined to fail. The AV guys were supposed to be at the lecture site at 10 AM to set up their projector for a 10:30 talk. Well, they showed up at 10:30. I was ready with everything I had control over (except the missing printout) but I couldn't start on-time, so my little clock faces were now all wrong.

 

Another question, is there a way to link two presentation while using two projectors. I used to do this any years ago with regular slide projectors... It worked very good.....

 

I did a four projector/two screen show once, used a primative computer device to sequence and control the disolves.

 

My father, who unlike me, does a LOT of presentations, uses PowerPoint slides that are divided into two or three or four images, and has them change at different times. So it uses one projector and a single laptop, but achieves a more complex visual result. I would suggest you look at that. The more devices you add to your equipement lst, the more there is to fail.

 

Keep It Simple.

[Elliot]

Ernest,

 

Thanks for your response and advise. I can see you have explored all these issues in great depth.

 

I found a company that produce a software called Power Show that apparently let you use the laptop as prompter while the projector is one slide behind. Take a look at these websites http://officeone.mvps.org/powershow/powershow.html http://www.powerpointanswers.com/article1026.html

 

These guys operate these websites with no phone numbers and I am afraid of them. However, they seem to have software that can do what I am trying to do. I am confused as how to achieve this. I feel one version requires two video cards but the other version is all through software. It is difficult to tell.

 

I am almost sure that a recent presentation I attended I saw the speaker doing what I am trying to do. However, he was not using a laptop. He was using a desktop and perhaps with two video cards.

 

Thanks

Elliot