HDR images slow down 3ds max

[yourfather]

Hello all,

 

my client wants me to start using HDR images for environment maps. I havent been using them because HDR images bring my system to a crawl when rendering with mental ray.

 

System:

6 Core Xeon process

32 Gigs of ram

4000 Quadro GPU

 

1. How does one incorporate HDR into their workflow if it slows down 3ds max so much?

 

2. Does Vray do a better job at maintaining system responsiveness while working with HDR images?

 

Thanks in advance!!

[marius e]

I cant say the same for Hdr images, obviously it will slow down, will slow down vray and any other program...but not to the extent you mention. Maybe your hdr images are just WAY to big in file size....

[John Dollus]

Your client specifically asked for HDRI environmental lighting? That's very odd. Did they say why? I suspect you either have a very knowledgeable client to the point they probably don't need to use you or you have a client who only knows a few buzz words and is looking for a style but doesn't know how to tell you.

[yourfather]

Hi Marius.

 

That could be the case. I'll check the resolution of the HDRs. The HDRs will only be visible through reflections so I'm guessing i might be able to reduce the rez. Thanks for the tip.

[RyderSK]

That's very odd. I use HDRi up to 16-24 000px in size (file size 250-400MB .exr) and there is no slow down at all. Of course, I can't load these into viewport without freezing the whole 3dsmax (2014) but everythink up to around 8k is fine and rotates without slightest delay.

 

I am still confused about what you mean by "slow down". Neither Vray or MentalRay has anything to do with system and program responsivness. regarding rendering speed, MentalRay didn't support natively Image base lighting (for HDRi use) without some tools, so I can't comment there, but Vray is just fine with IBL, although, HDRi tend to render much slower than native light sources due to dynamic range (the more dynamic range, the harder to sample, and hence, slower).

[yourfather]

Hi Juraj,

 

thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread. Before I talk about HDR i want to say thank you for your help with the brushed metal. Unfortunately, i couldn't get the look i wanted with my EXTREME CLOSE UP product shot using brushed metal. But your advice helped a lot.

 

Anyway, back to HDR images.

What i mean by slowing down is when I'm in 3Ds max with an HDR image loaded into the Environment Map slot, i experience slow 3Ds max performance when adjusting the HDR in the materials editor. I can barely even open the Preview Window for the HDR material. And when i try to changes its UVW attributes to possibly rotate the HDR, 3Ds max slows down…a lot.

 

I can work with the viewport turned off but then i don't know how the HDR and the modeled geometry line up and relate to each other.

[yourfather]

Juraj,

 

i just looked at your "Paris Apartment"…excellent, nice work.

 

Would you use a daylight system for the light and an HDR for reflections on an image like that?

 

Thank you for your time, your work is amazing and Im lucky to be able to ask you questions.

 

Best.

[RyderSK]

Well, now I see, and I think it could partially be because of 3dsMax bitmap loader. With Vray, you load HDRi using special "VrayHDRi" map, which may buffer it more efficiently. But it still shouldn't be such drastic difference, I load HDRi from basic HDD from NAS, and it's still just fine, but loading it from local SSD is awesome.

 

Could this possibly be some bug instead ? Try updating to newest SP for your 3dsMax version.

 

Regarding scene lighting, with scene like Paris, reflections from outside are caused by actual geometry and complete lighting is done with only one single HDRi (which is only 512px in size).

 

 

You could achieve completely identical lighting with Sun/Sky but I preferred the flexibility of HDRi, because I could get nice shadow spread, zero color cast,etc..

 

The HDRi plays much more important role in my other project, Icelandic house (on Behance) because single HDRi, was used for lighting, reflections and background at same time.

[yourfather]

You are helping me out a great deal. Thank you.

 

I will keep you posted on this.

 

Is it alright to email you a JPG of the brushed metal render I made with your advice (i can't post it on the message board because my client wouldn't appreciate it)? The render turned out ok. I think it would be good to get feedback from someone like you.

[Guest dialog]

Well, now I see, and I think it could partially be because of 3dsMax bitmap loader. With Vray, you load HDRi using special "VrayHDRi" map, which may buffer it more efficiently. But it still shouldn't be such drastic difference, I load HDRi from basic HDD from NAS, and it's still just fine, but loading it from local SSD is awesome.

 

Could this possibly be some bug instead ? Try updating to newest SP for your 3dsMax version.

 

Regarding scene lighting, with scene like Paris, reflections from outside are caused by actual geometry and complete lighting is done with only one single HDRi (which is only 512px in size).

 

 

You could achieve completely identical lighting with Sun/Sky but I preferred the flexibility of HDRi, because I could get nice shadow spread, zero color cast,etc..

 

The HDRi plays much more important role in my other project, Icelandic house (on Behance) because single HDRi, was used for lighting, reflections and background at same time.

 

 

When working off the SSD is it noticeably faster? Do you keep all of your maps and such on your SSD Drive or over the network? Just waiting on a Killer BOXX workstation with a 480GB SSD we ordered this week.

[Guest dialog]

You are helping me out a great deal. Thank you.

 

I will keep you posted on this.

 

Is it alright to email you a JPG of the brushed metal render I made with your advice (i can't post it on the message board because my client wouldn't appreciate it)? The render turned out ok. I think it would be good to get feedback from someone like you.

 

You can fire me an email as well and I can try and help out...worst case I cant help out haha

[RyderSK]

You are helping me out a great deal. Thank you.

 

I will keep you posted on this.

 

Is it alright to email you a JPG of the brushed metal render I made with your advice (i can't post it on the message board because my client wouldn't appreciate it)? The render turned out ok. I think it would be good to get feedback from someone like you.

 

Sorry, not this time. I might have more time for such things after January, as of now, it's just weird sort of relax to get in and give some quick advice to random subject. I wish it would be less dead forum.

 

When working off the SSD is it noticeably faster? Do you keep all of your maps and such on your SSD Drive or over the network? Just waiting on a Killer BOXX workstation with a 480GB SSD we ordered this week.

 

It is much faster. I keep all files on central NAS (Synology DS413, with regular HDD WD_Red disks), due to network acessibility for all workstations and render nods. I wanted to swap these for 960GB M5 Crucial SSDs, but it would be pointless with SATA3 and 1gb transfer. Sometimes next year because I am spoiled for speed and comfort I will build custom file server with refurbished intels 10gbit cards for whole network because I would love the luxury of SSDs even for network.

 

Desmond, I've received personal message ( I thought I had it disabled, seems odd ) but it's not possible to reply (because you have it disabled, weird so it must work :- ) .. ] so you have to send me email if you need reply.

[Guest dialog]

Sorry, not this time. I might have more time for such things after January, as of now, it's just weird sort of relax to get in and give some quick advice to random subject. I wish it would be less dead forum.

 

 

 

It is much faster. I keep all files on central NAS (Synology DS413, with regular HDD WD_Red disks), due to network acessibility for all workstations and render nods. I wanted to swap these for 960GB M5 Crucial SSDs, but it would be pointless with SATA3 and 1gb transfer. Sometimes next year because I am spoiled for speed and comfort I will build custom file server with refurbished intels 10gbit cards for whole network because I would love the luxury of SSDs even for network.

 

Desmond, I've received personal message ( I thought I had it disabled, seems odd ) but it's not possible to reply (because you have it disabled, weird so it must work :- ) .. ] so you have to send me email if you need reply.

 

Oh sounds awesome. I sent you my email.