mowstn Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) hey guys. would/did you consider asking your client for an additional %age if the project succeeds? Is that a good idea when working for competitions and do you think your clients would go for that? Cheers. --------- https://www.facebook.com/wunnenstein.vis Edited January 21, 2014 by mowstn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marius e Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 not in my opinion, you are paid for doing the illustrations..........different story if you are doing concept work included for the pitch, then you can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notamondayfan Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 If you're not confident enough that your work is of benefit to your client, then you either need to improve, or find other clients. I would also be very surprised if a client would even entertain bonuses. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 We have done this successfully for a competition project in the past. It is a risk/reward scenario. You take some risk by giving a reduced price for competition work where budgets tend to be lower. If that competition wind then you are rewarded by an additional lump sum that is notably greater than what you have charged for the work in the first place. I would highly advise against this unless you are familiar with the client, what they are pitching as the idea, and who the competition is and a understanding of what they might pitch. You need to realize that the success rate for firms winning projects is usually somewhere between 10-20%. Based on that I would also highly advise that you only do this if the number of firms still competing for the project is 3 or less. One interesting thing about this strategy is that it can reinforce to the client that you are part of the team and not merely providing a service. If you do a risk/reward then scenario then you will have additional emotional and economical investment in making sure that the product is top notch. This works because the client has to be cautious with their budget because they are gambling on whether or not they will get the job, but if they do get the job then they can afford to pay extra. The whole scenario is like investing in the stock market. It might be lucrative or you might fall flat on your face. So what numbers should be involved with a risk/reward scenario? It is tough to say but you need to make sure the reward is worth the risk. If the project would be a 20k rendering contract then maybe you lower the fee to 15k for rendering but if the projects wins the design contract then you get you get an additional 12k. This would mean that you laid 5k on the table and more than doubled on your return on the risk. These numbers are fictional. The question now is what should be the ratio of the risk/reward scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 It also might be best to use this only as a backup strategy rather than leading off with it. Write your fee proposal for the project but don't use this method unless the client says the budget your are proposing does not fit within their budget. Then you can propose this a solution that will work out for both of you if you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 What Travis said. I do occasionally make this kind of deal, and rarely get to collect the 'bonus', but have. I actually like the way it says the work is worth my full fee proposal or more, but I will risk part of it to be a team player. I am rarely asked to work on a competition without also being asked to cut my rates. I could say no (and do) or take the work for other benefits, like getting connected to an architect's client (a better client), push a technique I want to try, get lots of exposure (airport competitions and large urban projects get in the news) or that 'bonus' thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Beaulieu Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I have never encountered this, but after reading Travis's posts I feel like you could offer it up as a possible structure in the pricing conversation. Let the client choose to pay more and reap their own benefits or to save money up front and let you in on the spoils. Hardly different than what he said only that I am suggesting to put both on the table at once. This would say to the client that you have a bit of faith in them and even if they take the larger contract to save on a bonus payment, they are likely to think of you in the future and/or if they win the competition. *** small side note *** I heard or read somewhere that Luxigon has made an ever increasing effort to only take on competition pieces. At first the financial risk sounded odd to me because a lot of competition stuff is done in house and cheaply, but the passion a high profile/ high design project instills in artists and acclaim it brings on a win is well worth it if you can get the work. Luxigon certainly stands out for their impassioned work. It might have been this interview: http://www.cgarchitect.com/2011/03/interview-with-eric-de-broche-des-combes-from-luxigon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heni30 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Sometimes it can be tricky to say no to a long term client. I did this once because it was such a wide open competition and I didn't think their work was up to par. There was a chill in our relationship for a while but then things got back to normal. I was just blunt and told him I personally couldn't afford to work do speculation work like that, which was true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numerobis Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I have done it once but they didn't win... not sure if i would do it again. Maybe if i'm more convinced of the design. The deal was twice the money if they succeed. But it was the first project for this client and as a result i received several additional projects from them and other architects, so i think it was ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Its an interesting concept and one that I would have difficulty implementing, One of the things that make me hesitant is that there are many factors that could influence a win or loss that have absolutely nothing to do with my input. As such there is far too great a chance of not winning than winning. On top of that even if the scheme does win, there is still an even greater chance that it will never go any further let alone being built. So at the end of the day all you are really doing is under cutting yourself. I do agree with Ernest that it could be a way to work with a desired new client or get good exposure, but even then it would be a hard sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowstn Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 thanks guys for your input. i'm working beside studying, so i cant charge that much anyway. so i thought of this, as a "fair" way for both me and the client. i'll think about this. cheers, mo -------- https://www.facebook.com/wunnenstein.vis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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