Vray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Derek Forreal]

i love rendering as much as the next guy on here, but i'm not a Vray user and i'm not interested in reading about the umpteenth noise or splotch problem and which setting to tweak to get rid of it.

 

there are dedicated sections on the forum to ask those questions, so why do so many insist on posting them here?

 

same goes for Mental Ray and of course 3DS Max and all associated plugins and scripts.

 

ok, i'm ducking...

[RyderSK]

There's also dedicated section on internet for it :- ) Called "google". Most people never came across it obviously... I've been using Vray for 3 years and I've never needed to ask single question to anyone, ever. I would be also embarrassed to do so if the answer lied easily answered somewhere (and this is always the case, it's 2014, everything was answered,...almost, but in 3D, everything) as that would prove my laziness. Even if the answer isn't in minute of reach, usually with slight tinkering, and thinking, one can pretty much solve any problem. At least I've heard that's how people did it times of no internet references.

 

I don't actually understand why it's so prevalent here. CGTalk(on CGSociety) and Polycount are such good communities with great topics always going on, that I am buffled that cgarchitect deterioriated into "plx, how do I vray" (credit to Nic)

[Francisco Penaloza]

From what Juraj said,

I think there is a difference with cgarchitect and CG society, here (CGarchitect) there is a big audience that just needs to get the job done, and there is not time to "learn" or "read" the instruction of the software, I am not saying this is good or bad, just its happens, so with that in mind, there always be the same question asked over and over.

Now CGsociety, if mostly dedicated to artist that eat, talk and sleep cg graphics, so we all have that hunger of learn, the hard long way, read manual, read sheets from sigraph, buy books and many other ways to help us to learn what we love. The same way as you I read tons of book, and magazines related to 3D, real all the Help from software way before I start participating on this websites, that, yes it is a fast way to get answers.

[RyderSK]

there is not time to "learn" or "read" the instruction of the software

 

How do these people then even run bussiness ? If I was their client, and saw their illiteracy, I would be horrified.

But matter of fact, reading up manual usually saves so much time later, that it doesn't work as logical argument.

 

I am not saying this is good or bad

 

In what case can this be considered good ?

 

I thinkg CGSociety is full of regular humans who don't necessarily "live CGI" all day long, but I agree with you they seem to be way more serious about what they do. After all, this is not only visible in forums, but also in average level of works being posted (although to be fair, it was up until recently, fully curated galleries, and now it is both, curated stayed, but regular "free to post anything" was added, I personally like that system, it's pretty much superior to completely free one), which is very high in all measured standards.

 

To play devil's advocate, and because I largely enjoy extrapolating things into controversial extremes, could one of the reasons be general "low entrance" into the field ? Archviz isn't particullary hard compared to other forms of careers, so maybe it inadvertently draws in the most mediocre ? Something like graphic design (most notable in web design) or photography (very notorious "weddings" type "photography"), which I find suffers similar problems.

[Francisco Penaloza]

How do these people then even run bussiness ? If I was their client, and saw their illiteracy, I would be horrified.

But matter of fact, reading up manual usually saves so much time later, that it doesn't work as logical argument.

 

Ha ha ha true but you need to consider that there is lots or Architects here not only artist, also some drafters and who know what else, old graphic designers and so on. So some of them just need a nice image to present the concept of the building, The new era of good enough.

and considering that software has advanced so much in the last years, so you really don't need to study that much to get a believable image.

Again I am not saying this is good, I am totally against this fast crazy run to make as many project it is posible, we are skiping the main goal of design and art, but this is out of this talk of course , as matter of fact I am very technical in what I do, I like to read a lot and understand the way the thing. I was one of the ones who was jumping exited on VRay forum while reading and testing the new DMC techniques.

But truth to be told not everybody "has time" for this or just the curiosity and this is what make the difference between an Proffesional Arch Viz and some one who just does a render from time to time.

Also Autodek propaganda of "from REVIT to 3DsMax in one click" is very strong between architect firms so they all think that if it is done in REVIT, it just matter to export to Max and render, they hear oh VRay is the king of rendering so let do that too.

 

I always say, we all can run but only a few can be real athletes

 

 

 

To play devil's advocate, and because I largely enjoy extrapolating things into controversial extremes, could one of the reasons be general "low entrance" into the field ? Archviz isn't particullary hard compared to other forms of careers, so maybe it inadvertently draws in the most mediocre ? Something like graphic design (most notable in web design) or photography (very notorious "weddings" type "photography"), which I find suffers similar problems.

 

I was talking something similar with a friend not to long ago, I always felt that people now does not have much respect for Artist in general, again we all feel that we can do thing, everybody can paint, everybody can use a computer, everybody can take a photo, even with a cellphone and apply a ridiculous over saturated effect and put it in Facebook, and they think they are photographers.

I am a musician, (studied at university) I also studied graphic design and Industrial design, and I have been into photography for a while and always hear the same comment.

As a musician, "ho that sound good" what effect or amp are you using?

as a graphic designer " oh that's a photoshop filter right?"

and a industrial designer, " if the software does it on 3D it will be easy to do the changes in the shape"

as a Arch Viz " you are using VRay right?"

as a photographer, "That image is great, what camera you use?"

 

So my point is in this time of age, when software and technology advanced so much, people, with no knowledge think that technology is the only answer to a great art, they don't think about time spend learning, time spend trying, studying, practicing, failing and all that make a good artist stand up from the average.

[Nic H]

I have no respect or will to engage with people coming here with non specific v-ray problems. Best to ignore it.

(im pretty sure i used to post stupid questions though.....!)

 

Chaos forum is an excellent resource as is Google. If you have no luck with that then screen captures and images really help and often result in constructive feedback on here! Another thing that helps is contributing to general discussion.

 

It would be best if people that are architects do not post - or at least try to engage with the general forum. Id find it preferable that it was visualization professionals only (haha) as juraj says there is a very low entry threshold into architectural rendering and combined with the mix of ignorance and arrogance graduate architects have it can make for some irritating reading and in general a really low quality level of work which is depressing to see.

 

The artistry has been completely lost and replaced with technology - and all too often its re-posting presets / bbb3 viz scenes. the disturbing thing is that this preset reposting has become the respected and appreciated norm - 'gr8 rEnd3R whereE 2 DOwnloAD?! what a pointless pursuit.

 

I cant possibly read another 'making of' either.

 

anyway just a general *RANT*

[Ismael]

The artistry has been completely lost and replaced with technology - and all too often its re-posting presets / bbb3 viz scenes. the disturbing thing is that this preset reposting has become the respected and appreciated norm - 'gr8 rEnd3R whereE 2 DOwnloAD?! what a pointless pursuit.

 

Yes, totally agree.

[blank...]

I don't actually understand why it's so prevalent here. CGTalk(on CGSociety) and Polycount are such good communities with great topics always going on, that I am buffled that cgarchitect deterioriated into "plx, how do I vray" (credit to Nic)

 

What's not to understand. There are people that are architects and don't have time to learn all of the options, check boxes and buttons. Some also don't want to learn, and that is completely fine. They are not CG experts and they do not live for CG. They design and build buildings, they have no interest in knowing what every single options buried in tons of sub options does. And that is completely fine. They need nice picture, and they need it fast - it's often faster to ask then to dig through google and maybe find an answer, maybe not.

 

Why ask here and not somewhere else? Well, this is a forum about archviz where 100% of people do archviz. CGTalk - not so much. They live for CG, for characters, VFX, tracking, skinning...

This forum has a dedicated subforum for vray, mental ray and others. If it's there, and people are willing to help, why not?

[notamondayfan]

What's not to understand. There are people that are architects and don't have time to learn all of the options, check boxes and buttons. Some also don't want to learn, and that is completely fine. They are not CG experts and they do not live for CG. They design and build buildings, they have no interest in knowing what every single options buried in tons of sub options does. And that is completely fine. They need nice picture, and they need it fast - it's often faster to ask then to dig through google and maybe find an answer, maybe not.

 

Why ask here and not somewhere else? Well, this is a forum about archviz where 100% of people do archviz. CGTalk - not so much. They live for CG, for characters, VFX, tracking, skinning...

This forum has a dedicated subforum for vray, mental ray and others. If it's there, and people are willing to help, why not?

 

^^ Total wrong end of the stick, I think the OP was trying to put people off posting software related queries in the general discussion section, not be "elitist" at all.

 

Chill.

[blank...]

^^ Total wrong end of the stick

 

I know, but the whole thread went OT so i joined in

 

Chill.

Cold to the bone.

[RyderSK]

What's not to understand. There are people that are architects and don't have time to learn all of the options, check boxes and buttons. Some also don't want to learn, and that is completely fine. They are not CG experts and they do not live for CG. They design and build buildings, they have no interest in knowing what every single options buried in tons of sub options does. And that is completely fine. They need nice picture, and they need it fast - it's often faster to ask then to dig through google and maybe find an answer, maybe not.

 

Why ask here and not somewhere else? Well, this is a forum about archviz where 100% of people do archviz. CGTalk - not so much. They live for CG, for characters, VFX, tracking, skinning...

This forum has a dedicated subforum for vray, mental ray and others. If it's there, and people are willing to help, why not?

 

Looking for a second at the posters, they all appear in 90perc. of cases to be beginner 3D artists (I just go with the popular term for sake of clarity) and not true architects. I honestly doubt any architect has time to even post on CGI forum if he's not directly related with visualization.

 

The questions aren't posted in subsequent forums, they are posted in General forum, and they are stupidly formulated at best.

Some of them don't even warrant answer, "So how do I guys...everything??" Simply reeks of entitlement and laziness.

Almost half of the questions are repeated, sometimes they were answered like literally in thread right below of theirs, but why even look for a second ? No, people aren't willing to help if they help the same type of request every day. Over the time this drastically lowers the quality of answers because everyone who can actually give quality answer and not just "hmm, maybe try this ! but I don't know, I am also amateur :- )" is already tired and might not even chime in, so s***posters are pretty much ruining it for everybody, cluttering the space.

 

Also I find this notion of difference between CGtalk and here almost odd, do you go there actually ? The General forum isn't filled with any type of technical request, and in 20 minutes it is moved or banned. It's filled with that it's supposed to be... a General talk.

[Tommy L]

I have to confess that I dont post nearly as much as I used to, especially in response to technical questions, because the technical questions are always the same.

[salvador]

I have to confess that I dont post nearly as much as I used to, especially in response to technical questions, because the technical questions are always the same.

 

Right Tom. It's quite a thin line lying between "Ok, this guy needs some advise" and "Come on! Google it you lazy **s!" And the same goes to those post like: "What would you suggest to improve my render?" I've probably done this in the past, but for a few years now I do as Juraj and others said, finding the written / video answer already laid out.

 

I think "making of's" are quite good just to get someone to see the overall process and actually learn something, not to undertake them as cooking recipes for all general work. I've never posted any of my work here because I don't think it meets the high standard I've seen and that has nothing to do with my knowledge or skill, but rather to the scale / extent of what clients usually require. When I finally find the time to do some personal work, I'll be glad to share it here.

So, for all those who come looking for a quick tip to make a decent image, well, it actually clutters the space, no matter how justified the cause.

Edited February 7, 2014 by salvador

[Derek Forreal]

the whole thread went OT so i joined in

yeah, it immediately went OT

 

it's an interesting discussion though, and i have to say i've recently started coming here again after a good few months of staying away as it had pretty much become a dull and dreary Vray 'technical' help forum.

 

the point i was trying to make is that i have no issue with users wanting to learn more about Vray, lazy or not, but at least have a bit of respect for the other users and abide by general forum rules and post where relevant.

 

Best to ignore it

exactly, i'm often surprised when an awfully put and lazy question gets a long and thorough response from one (and often several) of the more established users on here.

 

if the OP can't be bothered to do some digging then why do it for them?

 

What's not to understand. There are people that are architects and don't have time to learn all of the options, check boxes and buttons. Some also don't want to learn, and that is completely fine.

i'm not an architect myself, so wouldn't know, but my guess is that these posts aren't coming from architects. generally i think the posts would be more appropriate and considerate. the ones i'm seeing are neither.

 

actually, Juraj said it a lot better than me :

 

Looking for a second at the posters, they all appear in 90perc. of cases to be beginner 3D artists (I just go with the popular term for sake of clarity) and not true architects. I honestly doubt any architect has time to even post on CGI forum if he's not directly related with visualization.

 

The questions aren't posted in subsequent forums, they are posted in General forum, and they are stupidly formulated at best.

Some of them don't even warrant answer, "So how do I guys...everything??" Simply reeks of entitlement and laziness.

Almost half of the questions are repeated, sometimes they were answered like literally in thread right below of theirs, but why even look for a second ? No, people aren't willing to help if they help the same type of request every day. Over the time this drastically lowers the quality of answers because everyone who can actually give quality answer and not just "hmm, maybe try this ! but I don't know, I am also amateur :- )" is already tired and might not even chime in, so s***posters are pretty much ruining it for everybody, cluttering the space.

[Francisco Penaloza]

Well maybe the search engine of this forum does not work properly too.

Sometimes I have tried to search something and it just does not give me the right answer, or any close as matter of fact. Sometimes I just Google it and it give the link for a thread in this mere forum

no reason to compare Google incredible search engine with this website, but maybe that is a factor to consider too.

[Derek Forreal]

Well maybe the search engine of this forum does not work properly too.

Sometimes I have tried to search something and it just does not give me the right answer, or any close as matter of fact. Sometimes I just Google it and it give the link for a thread in this mere forum

no reason to compare Google incredible search engine with this website, but maybe that is a factor to consider too.

but the point is, there are dedicated sections on the forum to ask these questions. there is a Vray forum, a 3DS Max one and a Mental Ray one. why do people have to post their "WHICH VRAY SETTING TO MAKE GREAT RENDER!!!!!" questions here on the General Discussions forum?

[salvador]

but the point is, there are dedicated sections on the forum to ask these questions. there is a Vray forum, a 3DS Max one and a Mental Ray one. why do people have to post their "WHICH VRAY SETTING TO MAKE GREAT RENDER!!!!!" questions here on the General Discussions forum?

 

Right! It's not easy to find the right info in the dedicated sections because there are a million threads, and it takes some dedication and purpose to stay on reading the problem thru. Still, users should be way more careful both to post in the correct sections and evaluate the relevance of their questions.

 

Ok, that's it for me. I'll keep (just) reading this thread with eagerness.

[CliveG]

Whilst I agree with just about everything said above, I'd just point out that some of the questions that appear brusque or rude are sometimes more to do with a poor grasp of English or of poor translation into English. Some cultures simply don't use 'please & thank you' like we're used to, so questions from them are always going to start off on the wrong foot.

 

OK the questions like - "how you make gud Vray?" still don't really deserve an answer in anybodies language, so don't give them oxygen.

 

I think Francisco makes a good point too... the Forum search engine could do with a good tune up too! I reckon it's only running on 3 cylinders?

 

Finally, is it a moderators role to move or remove inappropriate questions, could that perhaps help with the original point of the thread, I don't know the forum practices?