New office set up with small farm.

[jackdicker]

Hi guys,

 

First I want to say I have been looking into this for about 3 months now going back and forth to my my friend who builds PC's so we have been looking at various options and come up with a set up I would like to run past everyone. Firstly I will just explain to you what it is I plan to do in my office.

 

I will be using:

 

Sketchup 8 pro

Vray 2.0

Full adobe suite (some images I put together are close to 2-3gb per image)

CAD

 

Run Down:

 

I would like 2 fully working PC's of the spec you see underneath and then a small render-farm of maybe 3 units, allowing me to essentially use 5 units for distributed rendering. I then still having the option to get an employee in to help on larger jobs using the 2 fully working systems along side me and using the 3 separate units as the farm. - Hope this makes sense! So I want to have 2 systems for me and an employee to use, as well as a small render-farm that will be solely used for rendering, not work production.

 

 

The planned spec for the 2 PC systems:

 

Windows 64bit

CPU- intel core i7 4930K 3.4ghz

MOBO- gigabyte X79-UD3

PSU 650W corsair RM series 80PLUS

SSD- kingston hyperX 3K 2.5-inch 240gb PLEASE NOTE X2 running at 0 Raid

RAM- kingston xmp beast series 16bg2400mhz

EXTRA- Corsair h105

GPU- 760 Nvidia

 

OK so above you see the two systems I have planned to buy. My friend and I are still unsure about the GPU, I have this in my current machine and works fine, maybe a little laggy in larger interior models after all textures are applied, but I only really rely on CPU rendering in vray, but I have read these are not ideal for modelling complex models?

 

So my questions are:

 

how does everyone feel about these two set-ups set up?

 

Can people recommend some systems I would use for the 3 render-farm systems?

 

For the two full PC systems, I'm looking at spending no more than £4,000 for both. I have been quoted around £1600 for each unit with the spec above. Im only paying for parts as my friend can build these. So the render-farm units are more of a 'near future' ambition with no real budget as I can start with 2 systems and continue to build.

 

Im just a little unsure as to what route to take?

 

Thank you everyone in advance.

[Dimitris Tolios]

It is a solid build. That said, tweaks can be made...

 

Mobo: I am sorta biased towards ASUS boards for the X79. Even Gigabyte, a brand I trust trully, doesn't cut it as far as X79 goes.

That said, most boards will run fine if you don't plan on overclocking and you stick with the "defaults". A "vanilla" P9X79 Asus should do the trick.

 

RAM: 2400Mhz RAM is a waste of money. If you are worried about complex models, I would be more inclined towards getting 32GB of 2133 or even 1866 RAM, and not worry about anything faster...in reality even a 1600 kit will serve you just fine. RAM speeds above 1866 get noticed in games and compute tasks that are not relevant with ArchViz etc. Almost all companies do pretty reliable ram.

 

PSU: go for a V-series cooler master or equivalent 80+ Gold by a respected OEM like Seasonic or Super Flower. Don't cut corners on the PSU.

Even if it is not a 80+ gold, at least google the OEM for the particular PSU and make sure it is not a cheaply made unit.

 

SSD: Samsung is pretty much the defacto solution atm. Intel cannot touch them as far as reliability goes, most manufacturers cannot keep up with performance across the board. Samsung is the only firm with 100% vertical integration in their SSDs (they design and produce everything: chips, controller, firmware). Kingston is a decent alternative, tho when you go for "the best" with RAID etc, just get the best.

 

Cooler: CLC Corsair, Coolermaster, swiftech h2220 etc will work fine. Get a thick push/pull 120mm or a 200mm unit. That said, a 212 EVO will do the trick too. It is cheaper, simpler to install, less of a hassle to maintain / no worries for anything going wrong. For a non-overclocked 4930K, will suffice just fine.

 

GPU: The 760 is a decent all-rounder. If you won't be using VRay RT GPU, there is little reason to stick with nVidia. Even $100-150 max out autocad regardless of green or red team, and AMD (i.e. the "reds") does perform a tad better with OpenGL viewports (like Sketchup).

[jackdicker]

Great response,

 

I read on here that sketchup only processes a certain amount of RAM so is 32gb RAM not a little overkill? or are you saying this will help my other computing tasks? I agree with the GPU side of things, freeing up that and choosing a cheaper version will allow me to spend elsewhere in the build.

 

Thank you!

[RyderSK]

Great response,

 

I read on here that sketchup only processes a certain amount of RAM so is 32gb RAM not a little overkill? or are you saying this will help my other computing tasks? I agree with the GPU side of things, freeing up that and choosing a cheaper version will allow me to spend elsewhere in the build.

 

 

Thank you!

 

You're correct, they were never particually keen on updating the code to 64bit binary.

 

With that said, this is what current release states:

 

 

In this release, SketchUp is now built using the /Largeaddressaware property on the PC. This change allows SketchUp to potentially allocate/address more memory on 64-bit machines.

 

 

I don't want to say some bullshit, because I am not 100perc. sure, but I believe this pushes the 2GB limit of 32bit system to 4GB per program instance. Nothing miraculous you say, but you won't be able to push Sketchup beyond this point anyway, and might as well export at that time to other, more robust 3D app.

 

I would advice against the SSD-raid, you won't notice much performance increase, Dimitris's suggested Samsung are almost at SATA limit and even then, that speed is noticeable when moving larger files around mostly, not exactly what regular CGI work would benefit from. Save some of that money and buy high quality switch and NAS, after all, you will need it with 5 computers.

[jackdicker]

Thank you,

 

The SSD raid was more to do with programmes like Photoshop, loading and saving etc, as I said in my first post I edit files in Photoshop that sometimes exceed 2gb so I thought this idea would help that issue, maybe not? I also use my systems for large graphic projects as well as CGI purposes. I also run about 4-5 programmes simultaneously..

 

So are you saying not to bother with a 32gb RAM drive due to the limitations of sketchup? I should just stick to my 16gbRAM and leave it at that right?

 

As for a NAS I have that area covered, im looking at setting up a complete network server with 4x 1tb HDD's attached inside but this is still up for debate.

 

I think you are right in saying sketchup has limitations but I have not had any issues with my visualisation work and modelling work. The idea behind my upgrade is to speed the process up so currently its fine, i would like more speed and efficiency.

 

Thanks Juraj!

Edited February 8, 2014 by jackdicker

[RyderSK]

No I am not against 32GB at all, it's not so pricey after all (though there were better times), and you might benefit from it exactly with Photoshop.

 

The point about robustness of sketchup was that it simply don't need to allocate (and can't due to limitations) the resources because it doesn't allow you to do much scattering and other hungry tasks because it lies beyond the program possibilities anyway. But it doesn't negate the need for lot of ram. You can always have more instances open anyway.

 

I would be cautious with building Network server. It's not easy task to build reliable and efficient one, and if you don't exactly need the benefits of custom solution (for example installing 10gbit cards, Sata6 ports, extenstions,etc..) I would say you are much better with after-market NAS like Synology. 4x 1tb HDD sounds quite odd ? Are you in for some advanced Raid like Raid10 ? Always future proof, 1GB simply isn't enough for anything.

[jackdicker]

I'm sorry,

 

I think i got confused between a few systems I have been looking at over the past few months. My friend actually recommended the NAS synology systems so now you have mentioned it too, I think this is my route to take. I have been looking on-line for different models and it seems there really is a variety in price. Can I ask what you would recommend?

[RyderSK]

Since you mentioned 4disk setup, then recently introduced Synology DS414. I personally own [dual disk] DS214+ for short time, which swapped my older DS213(non plus), which has been serving me 2 years straight, without single touch, and zero problems. Excellent UI, functionality that I will never take advantage (web hosting,etc..), and other feats. It's nice efforthless solution, can't imagine not having it. If you check some reviews, these models fare so high they've been pretty much platinum choice in all possible web places for past years. But currently, quite lot of them are very good, but my sympathy lies with Synology and it had served me well.

[Dimitris Tolios]

As already mentioned correctly Sketchup won't care for more than 3-ish GB of RAM, although Vray 2.0 for sketchup appears to have a 64bit spawner now that does? That's not a small feat.

 

The 32GBs were mentioned more like a counter/alternative to go 2400MHz....i.e. you are "already there" going with most 4x4GB 2400 kits, to go for 4x8GB 1866.

 

Memory speed is far from the bottleneck in modern systems, especially those that don't use main system ram for VRAM (eg. a top of the line AMD APU would benefit notably, but as far as the GPU goes). Also, Quad channel supported by s2011 is also NOT a "game changer" ...in most cases it won't show benefits outside memory bandwidth benchmarks alone - at least in the desktop field, I have no idea how it benefits servers.

 

As far as NAS goes, Synology does appear to be a good choice, with pretty consistent customer satisfaction.

It is true that their prices are "saltier" than most competitors. Some might say you get what you pay for, and for a professional environment, regardless of size, reliable access to your data should worth it.

[jackdicker]

Thank you so much guys. Ill keep you updated about my progress with all this, you have been a real help.

 

I have another question, if I was to take out the 760 nvidia gpu for a cheaper solution would an AMD be a good route? I know I could pick one up for around 80-100 pound in the UK.

 

Thanks again.

Edited February 9, 2014 by jackdicker

[jackdicker]

Hi everyone,

 

Ive been looking at UPS units and came across this:

 

http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other+products/520W+Seasonic+P-520FL+80PLUS+Platinum+Modular+Power+Supply+-+Fanless+?productId=57063

 

What do you think? will this be sufficient for my proposed set up? I thought for £100 its a bargin right? I know these prices go up ridiculously high.

 

Thanks

[Dimitris Tolios]

100 pounds are the normal price for this PSU (around $130).

 

Should be ok if you won't be overclocking your CPU or GPU and have no aspirations for a second GPU.

 

I generally consider fanless cooling in general a big gimmick, as in most cases low rpm fans of proper design are nearly silent and VASTLY more efficient in dissipating heat.

 

A high efficiency PSU will manage to deal with it, as it is relatively big and consumes little energy by comparison: say your machine is pulling 300W, this PSU is 90% efficient, will have to deal with 30W of heat within its mass...not that bad...

The CPU will be dealing with 100-130W tho, and the GPU with 200+...guess what? That cannot be done passively, so you will be using fans on the CPU and the GPU, and ofc those fans are usually working harder than what a big 120-130mm fan would inside the PSU to dissipate 1/5~1/10th the heat, thus the PSU's fan would be the most whispering fan in your system to begin with! Even if this was worse than a 80+ Gold or Plat.

 

Taking away the PSU fan is the last thing you should be worried about!

 

For the same price you can get 700-750W 80+ Platinum PSUs, that will have their fan probably not running at all if we are talking low consumption situations (i.e. less that 400-300W), yet will ensure more reliable operation under a widest range of loads and indoor temperatures alike.

Edited February 9, 2014 by dtolios

[jackdicker]

Haha my mistake I meant PSU so thank you for correcting me. I think your right really. I think whats important is the efficiency of what ever I end up selecting.

 

Now I have been searching around for UPS units and my knowledge on this, like most components is slim. I had a power cut last week and nearly cried as I lost some vital clients work. Luckily my PC is fine and appears to not be suffering from any effects but this has woken me up considerably and made me think about some model type of UPS.

 

I found this but im not entirely sure it is what I need. Ive looked around and spoken to various people but this being a very specific build set up I wanted to see what you guys could advise. You have been extremely helpful already so lets see what u can do here.

 

Here is what I thought...

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B002RL0CKI/ref=mp_s_a_1_14?qid=1391978810&sr=8-14&pi=AC_SX110_SY165

 

Thank you in advance.

[jackdicker]

UPDATE GUYS,

 

I'm looking for a decent cost effective UPS to handle 2 PC's and a synology NAS unit. I'm finding this quite difficult to research, does anyone have any ideas?

[paneli]

UPDATE GUYS,

 

I'm looking for a decent cost effective UPS to handle 2 PC's and a synology NAS unit. I'm finding this quite difficult to research, does anyone have any ideas?

 

 

Same problem here. All UPS I ever owned failed on me. Some on thier first time. I always took 1500VA (for a 850W system its more then enough)

Now I take just a surge protector for each workstation\node and pray every storm.

[jackdicker]

Umm, yes I know that surge protectors are cheaper lol, but this is my livelihood, if I loose these I can't work. I've never had a problem with surge protectors all these years so I guess the question is why change now! The thing is during all this horrid weather in the UK I have experienced two power cuts in 4 months and I am worried about my set ups getting damaged. I'm just trying to protect my business, maybe it's not necessary to use UPS?

[paneli]

Umm, yes I know that surge protectors are cheaper lol, but this is my livelihood, if I loose these I can't work. I've never had a problem with surge protectors all these years so I guess the question is why change now! The thing is during all this horrid weather in the UK I have experienced two power cuts in 4 months and I am worried about my set ups getting damaged. I'm just trying to protect my business, maybe it's not necessary to use UPS?

 

 

 

I gave up on those a while ago.

Anyway it never came up usefull as advertised