Architecture student/draughtsman - am I wasting my time?

[Eliot Blenkarne]

Hi all,

 

I was a bit hesitant about making this post - I assume there are 3695839 threads similar to this somewhere out there. However, after getting into a 30-tab-open loop on youtube/digital tutor/lynda etc etc I thought it prudent to go straight to the people who know best - you lot.

 

My line of questioning is split into two areas.

 

The first is that of the realities of entering the arch viz world. I'm 28 years old, and am about to enter my final year of the bachelor in architectural studies here in NZ. I have worked as a draughtsman since 2008 on residential and commercial projects. Since I first entered the industry, my main interest has been the visualisation side of things, but only since studying at university have I realised there is the possibility of a career in it. My current employer is not really interested in it unless I do it for free in my own time (which I do as I enjoy it). My issue is, however, have I left it too late? I feel like a dinosaur already at uni, though my skill level on the programs we use there (generally our own choice but most gravitate toward sketchup/archicad/revit) is far beyond the others. I have started with 3DS tutorials and it seems a rather steep learning curve, especially so when I consider the plugins I haven't even looked at... I have used vray for skp for a year or so and produce, imo, fairly convincing images, though not exactly "photo real" - however i am feeling the limitations of skp in regard to polycount and certainly with a few tutorials under my belt of 3DS, modelling! I understand 3DS is the industry standard, and I am prepared to work very hard to learn it, but by the time I leave uni I will be almost 30, and I am unsure many employers in the arch viz world would be interested in someone of that age and (lack of) experience...

 

My second questions is to do with program "workflow" (can't think of a better term". As stated I am fairly experienced in Archicad and sketchup, and currently export from the former to the latter for viz work (using vray within skp). I am looking for some opinions on how to manage this. I see Peter Guthrie and Henry Goss using skp for modelling, then 3ds for rendering/populating, and I read others stating they would "never" accept a skp model from a client as they are generally so awful. I see a huge benefit in a workflow (cringe, again) where I build/document a model in Archicad with a view to be perfecting it for viz work in 3DS - is this realistic? It seems a little bonkers to be redoing all the work in 3DS - is the answer here ensuring a well prepared model from the original documentation program, aka Archicad/Revit etc?

 

 

Sorry for the post length - having a slightly-past 1/4 life crisis. Absolutely sick to death of producing working drawings and dealing with the construction side of the industry as directly as I have been and see a real chance to pursue something I legitimately enjoy in an area I have experience and interest in. If the answer is obscene amounts of hard work, then so be it - that's me general MO anyway.

 

Thanks in advance to those who bothered to get through all that^

 

Edit: yikes, is this in the right area? Off topic was possibly more appropriate...

 

Edited February 23, 2014 by eliotblenkarne

[RyderSK]

I've got lot of long test renders going on this weekend so I am here to reply :- D

 

To me visualization was simply going in, trying, seeing how it goes. I never even thought of this before I landed my first commercial job after I quit (read as "dropped it" ) architecture college. Needless to say I am much more than well-of now so it's definitely a bussiness I am not getting out of for atleast quite few more years.

 

It's definitely not "hard" work compared to real architecture or even drafting. Lot of people over-state the difficulty of archviz-biz, just like architecture students over-state difficulty of architecture college (it's time/effort demanding, not brain demanding particulary...). It takes the same, creativity being the hardest, rest being simply learning some mechanics which comes with time spent and effort given. All the resources on internet make this stage particulary straighforward and fast, so in the end it goes to how fast-learner you are.

 

[Evermotion's 'ArchViz Series vol.1/vol.2'; Viscorbel's series, Grant Warvick's 'Mastering Vray'; countless 'making offs' on Ronen Bekerman's website on every possible style; Guthrie's blog, Bertrand's blog, Vyonyx's blog, etc...]

 

Software is by large quite irrelevant if you plan on freelancing, of course, in studio world, you got to fit in existing pipeline, which by largest margin is Max/Vray. Regarding Peter Guthrie's workflow, it's miles different to average model produced by architects themselves, it's again how the tool is used, the capacity is pretty big. I personally love when clients give me Sketchup models, they're so much easier to work with than CAD models/plans, but I only use it as quick reference to build my own precise model on top of it. But I specialize in segment that gives me time and budget to do this, which is again different from people who need fast turnaround and iterations, so for them, keeping CAD models (Revit/Archicad) is often necessity.

 

I don't see much reason why to stress over something. You'll have architectural diploma soon, you currently have a job with steady income and you probably have some time to learn. Not much else is needed, and it's far from bad situation to be in. With all the effort you given to achieve the diploma and time spend drafting, you might think about some way how to use all that maybe, not going purely only for visualization. Visualization works as great selling/marketing medium even being supplementary service if you decide to start architecture/design office.

 

tld;dr/fast personal suggestion: Don't spend time figuring things out or thinking endlessly about choices. Install 3dsMax trial (endless student version is available directly by Autodesk) and renderer of choice (but it's not bad at all to start with Vray) and follow all the resources available. Then 1:Train with your own stuff (pick some real-world reference, don't give in your fantasy too much...)....2:)Starts to look good?....3:)If yes then publish in on any of the plethora mediums out there (cgarchitect, evermotion, behance,etc...)....4: Get clients/Profit

Edited February 23, 2014 by RyderSK

[Scott Schroeder]

First thing, concerning SketchUp. SketchUp itself isn't awful. SketchUp as a tool is great. One of the downfalls is that it is easy to pick up and start modeling, so many people pick it up and start creating without any care or thought to proper modeling standards. I rarely accept SketchUp models, but I also rarely accept Max models. The quality lies within the user, not the software. The reason why I don't accept models is that 10 times out of 10, the error within the model pops up at the last possible second when you are rendering. You'll see inverted faces, flashing co-planar faces in animation, etc. There just isn't time for that. If Peter sent me a SketchUp model, I'd use it without hesitation. When my client sends me their brother's cousin's niece's nephew's SketchUp model, that is where I get a little worried.

 

On to age. I don't care if you are 18 or 1800, all though our health insurance might care if you are 1800. Can you learn? Can you show interest? Are you willing to push yourself to become a better artist? Does age have any bearing on those questions?

[Eliot Blenkarne]

I was hoping you both would reply, thanks for doing so.

 

Juraj Talcik (love your work, mild fan-boyism over here) - interesting to hear your thoughts on "hard work", particularly regarding the degree. I agree wholeheartedly where difficulty of the topic is concerned, however I still feel hours spent slogging away to learn a new program constitutes hard work - one could be out pursuing a social life instead (haven't had one of those in awhile). Also interesting point regarding your place in the market, makes a lot more sense in terms of the use of models. The reason I am "stressing" a bit is that I don't really want to spend another 6 years in front of a computer drawing steel frame connection details or residential drainage plans, it is corrupting to the spirit (at least mine). I also don't really want to go into a new role where I am making a pitiful amount of money for extreme hours (been there, done that) - which points to freelancing of course.

 

 

Agree with you Scott regarding sketchup completely. It is belittled a huge amount at school, though usually by those beginning to learn other software, the aversion to it is typically "skin deep". Ask a few questions and the answers usually end up being "oh it's just simple and shit" (excuse the language), the simplicity of it being one of its obvious pros!!!! Thanks for your view on age - my sentiments exactly and great to hear from yourself.

 

I have met with a viz company and spoken with the directors in their studio - great to get a feel for these things and I couldn't have asked for a more thorough and interesting overview.

 

Food for thought, thank you guys, and others feel free to post your thoughts!

[heni30]

Hey Eliot,

 

It may not feel like it, but 28 is pretty young in the architectural arena. Pratt Institute use to have a marketing poster that said "Gauguin was a bank teller until he was 32 - It's never too late!" So lucky for you, you still have some time.

 

The technical skills in Max will not be too hard to acquire, especially because there's a lot of generic stuff that will carry over from Archicad and SketchUp. More importantly you will have to spend a lot of time learning about the aesthetics of image-making - knowledge and skills that will, hopefully, eventually make your work stand out from the herd's. It sounds like you enjoy it so it will make it easier.

 

Like the Nike logo says: Just do it!

[RyderSK]

I don't really want to spend another 6 years in front of a computer drawing steel frame connection details or residential drainage plans, it is corrupting to the spirit

 

This is how I felt at college almost every day...it wasn't even hard for me at all much, I think I was quite achieving student. But every morning just made me unhappy to point of mild depression (of course, other things were involved but still). And I lacked the "discipline" to imagine doing that for another 4 years until I could go my way, I was quite relentless on being fully hapy right away.

 

It is belittled a huge amount at school, though usually by those beginning to learn other software

 

It still is everywhere :- ) I find it so absurd people judge their results by their evaluation of tool. I think both playful and systematic people can see Sketchup potential quite immidieatelly, it's not hidden. I spent considerable time in Sketchup in beginning and had slightly painful transition to fully poly modeling in Max. Eventually I adopted full 3dsMax workflow because I both needed the SubD possibility for high-poly modeling, and it was just easier to keep going in single package compared to Sketchup---)3dsMax workflow. It could be less linear, more natural. If I would start over, I would have skipped Sketchup because it spoiled me how simple and enjoyable the tools can be :- )

Edited February 23, 2014 by RyderSK

[notamondayfan]

For a start 28 isn't too old to re-think, you've got 30+ years before you retire, so you might as well enjoy your working life, and I would be very suprised is arch-vis as we know it is still around by then!

 

Do what you love, and it won't even feel like hard work.

[Tommy L]

Im 35 and make a good living doing what Im doing. But I dont want to still be doing it in 20 yrs. Your career is a personal choice and I think the good thing about arch-vis is you can pick it up with no specific education and give it a go. You'll need a slice of luck and some degree of talent to make a comfortable living though.

[Eliot Blenkarne]

Thanks all for the thoughts and opinions.

 

I'm always told that 28 is young, it sure doesn't feel that way when my friends are buying houses, getting married etc and I'm still studying! Not that those things particularly interest me, but a decent living from something I really enjoy does.

 

I've set myself a goal of producing all my modelling and rendering work within 3DS for my final year at uni. Should be interesting/soul destroying

[CliveG]

I guess one last thing you've got to consider Eliot is your geography. If you are aspiring to be employed (as opposed to freelance) you need to decide where that is likely to occur, as from my recollections of NZ the opportunities may be more restrictive over there than some of the respondents here may appreciate.

 

That's not to say they won't exist, but you need to be mindful of the pool your pitching your talents in. Obviously if you can get yourself as good as the Juraj's of the world then it doesn't really matter where you live, the work will come to you.

 

But if you're honest with yourself and you're likely to follow a slightly lower career trajectory and are going to need the learning afforded by being employed, then you need to focus on where that is likely to happen, like if you live in Invercargill it's going to be more of struggle to get a job than Auckland or Wellington, are you prepared to move - even to move country?

 

If there are opportunities in your area then you're probably well advised to learn about those companies now, try and tailor your portfolio / CV (maybe workflow) to suit them, perhaps even make some early introductions now?

 

Obviously it's best for you if you just work your A off and just become brilliant, but alas there's a lot more to becoming brilliant at this than can be taught in any school.

[Eliot Blenkarne]

Interesting thoughts - I'm not yet sure whether our isolation, geographically at least, is a pro or a con. Like I say, the expectation level of viz work here is so low, even the awareness of the industry just isn't there... For freelancers, it's a real gold mine. I mean, some of our most well regarded firms are showing raw skp models on their websites with the default "style", gradient blue background and all. I even saw one where the building sat into the site, but they hadn't cut the site away to suit... I mean, wtf?

 

I have spoken with a couple of NZ based viz firms, so they know of me. They have asked me to stay in touch and to contact them when I finish, and they are of considerable talent. I am certainly not expecting a job at all, they are simply being friendly and showing a bit of comradeship to me.

 

I will definitely take your thoughts on-board. This thread has really put my mind to rest to a degree. My problem is that I am of the type to want to be the best, always, so when I see the likes of Juraj, P. Guthrie, Bertrand, et al, I want to be producing that sort of work ASAP. It can be quite all-consuming as I, and my friends/family, have since found. I don't want to come across as dismissive of the work those guys produce in my assumption I am capable of it - quite the opposite, they are my inspiration.

 

Thanks to all who replied with their thoughts and opinions. Awesome community here, and a really exciting industry to hopefully one day be part of.

[hanselmoniz]

I feel you should continue to work and pick up 3d viz as a part-time job till you get enough of part time assignments so that you can quit your real job to build a studio. It is not too late but if you feel you got what it takes then go for it

[philippelamoureux]

I'm A little bit in the same boat as the OP. 29 years old, recently finished university in Urban planning. Always been interested in computer and especially computer graphics. Discovered Arch viz and that it was possible to make a career out of it. This is my goal. I'd like to do arch-viz, urban planning viz or even industrial design viz one day!

 

 

I have a chance to have a job that allow me to spend 6+ hours per day to learn 3ds max / vray / photoshop and being paid while I do it. I just need to reach a certain point where my skills are good enough to build a small portfolio and try to get hired. Hopefully my skills will make it for my lack of work experience. Gotta have to work hard hehe!

 

 

I think I live in a good city to do that job. In Montréal there are a lot of arch firms, design studios, etc.

 

 

I think there is no reason to stress out, we'll probably have to work for 30+ more years and I'm sure you don't want to spend it doing something that bores you!

 

 

good luck to us! :-P

[eagle_ear]

makin the jump to hyperspace ain't like dustin crops boy:p

[M V]

I am 34. I started drafting in high school, went to architecture school and got my BArch, worked as an arch intern for a couple of years and then fell into this industry and realized this is what I love. I learn every day. Tutorials, videos, my own testing, etc. You are never too old to learn something new.

 

I use SketchUp every day all day. Everything I design and render is within SketchUp with V-Ray mostly. Find a workflow that works for you and master it and find an employer that appreciates what you do and let's you grow your skill while contributing to the firm. There are a millions ways to be in this profession and love what you do. Just keep pushing.

[Rich O]

I guess one last thing you've got to consider Eliot is your geography. If you are aspiring to be employed (as opposed to freelance) you need to decide where that is likely to occur, as from my recollections of NZ the opportunities may be more restrictive over there than some of the respondents here may appreciate.

 

That's not to say they won't exist, but you need to be mindful of the pool your pitching your talents in. Obviously if you can get yourself as good as the Juraj's of the world then it doesn't really matter where you live, the work will come to you.

 

But if you're honest with yourself and you're likely to follow a slightly lower career trajectory and are going to need the learning afforded by being employed, then you need to focus on where that is likely to happen, like if you live in Invercargill it's going to be more of struggle to get a job than Auckland or Wellington, are you prepared to move - even to move country?

 

If there are opportunities in your area then you're probably well advised to learn about those companies now, try and tailor your portfolio / CV (maybe workflow) to suit them, perhaps even make some early introductions now?

 

Obviously it's best for you if you just work your A off and just become brilliant, but alas there's a lot more to becoming brilliant at this than can be taught in any school.

 

Haha, just saw this and had a chuckle. Invercargill's only 3d arch vis artist, reporting in!

 

(Of course, most of my work comes from further north)