Workstation about 4500 $ (3300 €)

[pablohoney]

Hi there,

First I wanna say hello for everyone cg enthusiasts .

 

My good laptop friend can't handle my works anymore so I decided to spend my money on a new workstation. I am thinkig about launch my own business so it must be a serious thing. My budget is 4500 $ (3300 € - I am from Europe) and can not be exceeded. I am making a still images, no animations and rendering only by CPU.

 

I have started to look for some HP workstations like Z820 line but I am so confused cuz I am not up to date with news from pc world you know... I am just looking on some cpu benchmarks and compare processors overall rankings. For example some cheaper HP Z430 workstation with Xenon E5-1650 CPU (about 3000$) got much better ranking than E5-2620v2 CPU which is in some Z820 model (about 4300$).

 

Can I ask you guys for a little help ?? Can you propose best solution for this price ?

 

As I said, I am making only still images so far. At this price I need full set with monitor (about 23") and Win7 OS. RAM memory should be at least 16 GB and 32 GB max.

 

Hope that you could help me with this issue and bring me some good ideas.

[Dimitris Tolios]

The answer to your questions already exist in multiple threads of this forum, external blogs etc.

There are no secrets, you just have to ask the "right questions" to Google, and interpret the results. =)

 

The E5-1650 is a "single CPU only" 6 core/12Thread (6C/12T) s2011 Xeon with 3.2GHz base clock and 3.8GHz Turbo, in many ways identical to a i7-3930K "civilian" version. It cannot be overclocked, but "does" ECC & Registered RAM. Thus you can have up to 256GB RDIMM with this guy, vs. the 64GB UDIMM you can pull with the socket 2011 i7s.

http://ark.intel.com/products/64601/intel-xeon-processor-e5-1650-12m-cache-3_20-ghz-0_0-gts-intel-qpi

 

The E5-2620 v2 is a "dual-CPU-system-capable" 6 core s2011 Xeon.

The "cheapest" available 6C/12T able to do 2P, or close to that.

Thus the clocks are pretty limited for each one of those cores. Just 2.1GHz base with 2.6GHz Turbo.

It can "pull" even more registered RAM along, and is far more power efficient due to the lower clocks. Great for a low power server, mediocre for a workstation.

http://ark.intel.com/products/75789/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2620-v2-15M-Cache-2_10-GHz

 

It is easy to understand that those two CPUs, tho comparable in many ways, are radically different in performance, as the E5-1650 has almost 50% faster clocks. The E5-2620 v2 will be outpaced by even modern i7 laptops, and trumped by all desktop i7 or fast-clocked Xeon systems.

 

Two of them might pull their weight better while rendering, but since most of the stuff we do are single threaded = won't utilize more than one thread of one core, regardless of you having another 11 or 111 cores idling in reserve, things will be sloowww most of the time.

 

Are you looking into building the new workstation yourself, piecing it for some local store to put together for you, or are you looking strictly for a ready made OEM workstation (e.g. HP/Dell/Lenovo) with some customizations directly by the manufacturer?

Edited April 9, 2014 by dtolios

[pablohoney]

First of all I want to thank you for your reply.

 

I think that now you know why I ask you guys for help

About that pc's that i mentioned- that is only an example that I don't really understand why one of them is more expensive than another in relation to the web rankings of efficency.

 

That is my problem, I don't know for what should I pay my atention and for what I shouldn't. What things are most importand in case of rendering still images. You know it's not 100$ and I just don't want to waste my money for something ineficient.

 

About your question: Buy branded workstation is the easiest way I think but I really want to buy most efficent device for this price so thats why I ask you for a help. It does not make any difference to me to complete computer set by myself or buy a branded one but if there are some very good branded models on market that you could really recommend for rendering still images than it will be much easier to just buy it and work on it

 

I forgot to mention that I use 3ds max and v-ray

[Dimitris Tolios]

Take a look at this if you want a decent base for custom piecing it together. It is a year old, but still holds true to the most part.

http://pcfoo.com/2013/03/cg-workstation-the-pro-3930k/

 

This is a primer for you to make somewhat more educated choice and build on a component selection framework. Not an "evangelion" you have to follow.

 

In general it is much more cost effective to build your own vs. buying a ready made workstation in this price ranges, and you get a far greater selection. Nothing stops you for example to build your DIY 1P / 2P workstation with a GTX or Radeon GPU, while in the OEM customization page you would be limited to Quadro and/or Firepro cards.

 

GTX and Radeons are "gaming cards" in their book, so those belong only in gaming systems.

 

Pretty much everything in the OEM's site will be marked up, but this is understandable as they are called to provide for support and warranty for each and every little change you make, and still make a profit at the end of the day.

Edited April 9, 2014 by dtolios

[pablohoney]

Thank you very much for help. I appreciate it very much, it is so helpfull for me.

 

Based on your review I completed a set for the following parts:

 

CPU

Intel Core i7-4930K

Motherboard

Asus P9X79 WS

RAM

G.Skill DDR3 2400 MHz 4x8GB (32GB) (dunno what model exactly:confused:)

Graphic

nvidia Quadro K2000 2GB (low variant)

nvidia Quadro K4000 3GB (best variant)

SSD

Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (low variant)

Samsung 840 Pro 128GB (best variant)

HDD

Western Digital Caviar Black 1 TB

Case

Antec P280 Black Midi Case

PSU

Corsair AX1200i 80+ Platinum

DVD

Asus DRW-24B3ST (just better looking

)

OS

Windows 7 Professional SP1 64bit (OEM)

 

Whole set will cost about 3500-3350$ (2500-2400€) so I am pretty happy about price. Tell me if you have some objections.

Last thing is monitor, do you know something worth recommending ???

[numerobis]

some comments...

 

- you need a cpu cooler

- DDR3 1866MHz is really enough for the 4930K - you will see some performance gains up to 2133MHz for things like WinRAR or some games, but not for rendering or modeling. (Haswell (4770K) scales a bit better with higher RAM speeds, so there it could be worth to buy faster RAM)

- The 256GB version of the 840 PRO has a bit higher write rates. If you need the size depends on your usage, i think - would you use it for your current projects or is everything stored on a server. What will you store on the HDD?

- A 1200W PSU is really overkill unless you want to plug in 2 or 3 more big graphics cards. 750-850W should be more than enough even if you overclock.

[pablohoney]

Thank you for your suggestions !

 

I really forgot to mention that CPU Cooler is

 

Corsair Hydro H100i

 

But I have already counted it in costs on my frevious reply. Case Antec P280 is compatible with this cooler (two 120mm fan slots on top of the case).

 

 

Thank you for direct me in to right way of choosing RAM frequency so it is gonna to be a little bit cheaper. On SSD I would like to install OS and all programs and keep my recent projects. HDD will be for storing all complete projects, models, textures etc.

[Dimitris Tolios]

I agree with the above comments.

 

- Storage: with current prices, 128GBs are for rejuvenating your old laptop...better get a 250 or bigger straight away. With windows installations getting bigger and bigger, the 120/128GB will be tight after you drop deployments of 3DS/Adobe suite and the usual crap and project files over that. Better leave some headroom and not plan on something that will be 60-70% full from the get-go.

Don't be afraid of the cheaper 840 EVO either. The Pro is a tad over-rated imho, and the 250 EVO a steal with current offers (at least in the US).

 

- RAM: Anything above 1866 won't matter really, and anything more than 2133 is overkill. Better get 1866 and save the difference for more meaningful component upgrades.

 

- PSU: For the config you have, even 550-600W are enough, unless you will be overclocking a lot, where again, with those GPUs will be enough with a good unit.

 

- GPU: you could go with GTX too should you wish, no need to spend big on a quadro for 3DS max, unless you know what you are getting and why.

The K2000 is not a great card for the price under Nitrous viewport: it is good, but not $450+ good.

 

- Monitor: There are a couple of ways to think of it. You go with 1 monitor (for now) or 2.

Your options are ofc lots and lots, but I would start thinking of either 2*$300 class 24" 1200p IPS or 1* $500~700 27" 1440p IPS.

 

Last but not least, you could hunt for a 28" 4K deal, as more and more are popping around in the $700-800 range. It is not IPS, yes, but most panels are decent and will have ample of room (and the e-peen is strong).

[pablohoney]

Thank you for your suggestions !

 

I really forgot to mention that CPU Cooler is

 

Corsair Hydro H100i

 

But I have already counted it in costs on my previous reply. Case Antec P280 is compatible with this cooler (two 120mm fan slots on top of the case).

 

 

Thank you for direct me in to right way of choosing RAM frequency so it is gonna to be a little bit cheaper. On SSD I would like to install OS and all programs and keep my recent projects. Brobably you are right, it is better to take 256 GB. HDD will be for storing all completed projects, models, textures etc. Can you recommend me any good PSU that can handle this set ?? I would like to overclock CPU a little bit by stock motherboard software. So you say that GTX will be best for my needs? (still images, only CPU). I have to think about monitors. My workplace has a desk about only 60cm deep so 27" could be too big because seat is very close to it. 2x24" could be a better ide but as I said I need to think a little bit about it. So you advice me to look for IPS ?? Maybe you got something specyfic in mind ??

[RyderSK]

I would advise against Corsair Hydro systems if you don't plan on swapping the fans, which are noisy (but the pump is noisy as well), altogether they reach 35dB at 1m proximity, which is tad too high for my liking.

So it's either that or simply go with sucessor of air cooler Noctua NH-D14, the NH-D15, which is even more powerful, and completely even with close-looped systems at very low noise.

 

Case Antec P280 is quite old case by now, and at its time was a decent competitor for Fractal Define R2. But Fractal is currently at 4th revision, offering superior performance compared to P280, in literally everything. It looks better, it's more silent (esp. the top positions, but I would still advice against filling those, you don't need them for 4930k and one gpu), and uses 140mm fans compared to 120mm. Also, due to P280's size, you might go with either Define R4 or Define XL R2. With the little price you save on, buy either 140mm Noiseblocker or Noctua series fans to fill frontal 2 positions and 1 in the back, and enjoy around 10 dB less of noise on average atleast discouting GPU ;- )

 

Noise matters.

[joelmcwilliam]

Some questions:

 

-how fast do you want to render in comparison with your laptop

-what are the specs of your laptop

-how big are your models

-do you have a good back up

-do you game

-why not windows 8 and what version of 3dsmax you use

-do you want silent

-how much do you want to overclock

-do you use gpu rendering

-do you want 2 gpu's in the future

-do you want to build it yourself (

)

 

Some advise:

 

cpu: depending on how fast you want to render you can save money

monitor: bigger is better. Even if you are sitting close.

ram:you can save money here by starting with 16 gb and monitoring your ram usage, add more later if needed

psu: definitely you can save money here

gpu: depending on your usage you can save money here

hdd/ssd: i would ditch the hdd and get a bigger ssd, also depends on your backup

case: depends on how much heat cpu and gpu produce (overclock/gpu rendering)

 

If you can answer above you should get better feedback.

 

In the computerhardwareworld it is always better to only buy what you need, save money and keep upgrading later.

[pablohoney]

The point is that this money left me after buying 3ds and vray. I have to spent it for pc and I have to buy best one. Don't need to make any savings. These set from previous posts looks nice and the price is good also. Ok now I will try to answer some questions that had left so maybe you could give me some new advices. My laptop is already 4-5 years old and it's too weak to handle my projects, actually even working in viewport with some complex scenes is very tedious. I am not playing any games etc. just working. Is there any advantages to working on win 8.1 than on win 7?? I'm very accustomed to win7 and it looks stable so far. Yes I appreciate the quiet work. As far considering the purchase of Noctua NH-D14/NH-D15. I want to overclock as far as it's safe to work without any damage in rendering of course. I am not using gpu (mentioned before, want only viewport smooth running). So far I thought about buying 2x 24" NEC EA244WMi to fit in the costs. I think that 256 GB SSD is enough to handle my apps and current projects. I can always buy new one later.

[Dimitris Tolios]

Win 8 is actually faster than 7 in quite a few ways.

The only issue is the Metro interface, that is "too complicated/different" for some "old dogs" that kick back and simply dislike it from the get-go.

 

It can be mostly "overridden" in 8.1 currently out, or using 3rd party UI shells (think "themes"), but if you have a short temper/little patience for this kind of changes, you could skip it al-together, and stick with 7 for some time more. No biggie.

[pablohoney]

Hi there!

I need a new advice. I heard something about new i7-5820K processors. It is much cheaper than 4930K/3930K and got preety close performance. Can you tell me is it worth to buy it instead 4930K/3930K ??

[octavro14]

Hello, my situation is almost the same with yours Pablo, so I decided not to open a new thread and hope this is appropriate. I too search for a workstation for max 3000 euro which btw is just 3300$ right now. I stumbled over xidax website and made a configuration https://www.xidax.com/workstations/w-4-workstation-desktop/?saveconfig=38296 (a bit over my budget).

 

What I hope is to reduce the time of material and light testing to a minimum, I don't mind if for large stills for commercial projects I hire a farm but I feel I loose the most time with testing. Thinking that vray-rt could in part help with that I am thinking of going for 2xGTX 970 in SLI instead of a quadro 2000. (for the same price)

 

what do you think about this config?

[joelmcwilliam]

If you have to buy everything new and you have the budget, go for it man.

[Dimitris Tolios]

Exactly. If you were buying a new system, there is little incentive not to go for a 5820K / X99 / DDR4.

If you were upgrading an existing system and you do have the DDR3 that would work with 4930K/3930K, it could be the only reason not to go for the newer s2011-3 / X99 platform - other ofc than a good deal on a used 4930K.

[pablohoney]

I am buying a new PC in next month. My boudged has changed a little bit and I can't spend whole money only for PC, so it would be nice to get some savings (for expamlpe I resigned from the graphic card - CPU rendering, and put less RAM - 16GB). So guys what platform you suggest ?? Any other changes ?? Take a look:

 

CPU

Intel Core i7-4930K

 

Cooler

Noctua NH-D14

Motherboard

Asus P9X79 WS

RAM

G.Skill DDR3 1866 MHz 2x8GB (16GB) (dunno what model exactly:confused:)

SSD

Samsung 840 Pro 128GB

HDD

Western Digital Caviar Black 1 TB

Case

Fractal Define R2

PSU

Corsair AX1200i 80+ Platinum

DVD

Asus DRW-24B3ST (just better looking

)

OS

Windows 8.1

[Dimitris Tolios]

If you try to cut down on cost, and sacrificing RAM or this and that, why do you go for those "overpriced/un-needed" sub-components?

 

* I highly doubt that a 4930K + a mid range X79 board + 16GB DDR3 will be much cheaper than a 5820K with a mid range X99 and 16GB DDR4 2133.

 

* I highly recommend against going for a P9X79 WS board or any other "dolled-up" motherboard over a P9X79 Pro or - how that is 2015 - a X99-A. You get VERY VERY few benefits - if any - with those: what do you need? more than 8 SATA ? More than 1 NIC? More PCIe 16x slots? There is no benefit paying $100-200 more for a motherboad. No, it is not "more stable" because it says WS in it, and in case of the X99 series, the power delivery is the same for the CPU = same OC potential too.

 

* 1200W PSU? Really? To power what? Your Quad-SLI 980s? Clearly overkill. Your system with ANY single GPU would run fine on a 500-550W, you would go more if you had a dual 290X / Titan or 295x2 card. A 750W is safe for pretty much any realistic scenario, and 80+ Gold is good enough for anyone. Gold vs. platinum is splitting hair, and there is little ROI possible on energy savings for the average system really, even if you compare 80+ Silver or Bronze vs. Golds and Platinums. By the time your savings add up, you should start thinking replacing your PSU (i.e. will be more than 5 years).

 

* 840 Pro: that is kinda old. I would go for a bigger 850 Evo, but if you have to have pro, at least go for the 850.

[octavro14]

Hello, I am in the same situation with buying a workstation for around 3500$ and decided not to open a new thread.

 

CPU

i7-5820K

Video

x2 NVIDIA Geforce GTX 970 in SLI

Cooler

Xidax 550LC CPU Cooler

Motherboard

Gigabyte GA-X99-Gaming 5

RAM

32GB Xidax Extreme DDR4 2400MHz Memory

SSD

XIDAX Performance SSD 256gb

HDD

Western Digital Blue 1TB - 7200RPM

Case

xidax Focus

ASUS 27" Full-HD LED Monitor

 

this totals 3555$ usd

 

I read some of your posts here on the forum, i just want to make sure i don't make any silly mistakes. Also i did this config on xidax website but i have no problem if you recomand any other source to buy the components cheaper.

[aaronrumple]

Here's a couple of build lists I've put together. Working toward a GPU rendering station as final goal.

Building the base workstation around the 5960x so I don't need to add on additional rendering nodes to start. (Performance should equal the 8 station farm I used to have). Yes it could be cheaper, but then again it will be used for more than just rendering.

 

I'll have to flip out the power supply later depending on the number and type of video cards added in at later date.

 

I ran a couple of comparisons with Boxx systems.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/aaronrumple/saved/

[RyderSK]

Here's a couple of build lists I've put together. Working toward a GPU rendering station as final goal.

Building the base workstation around the 5960x so I don't need to add on additional rendering nodes to start. (Performance should equal the 8 station farm I used to have). Yes it could be cheaper, but then again it will be used for more than just rendering.

 

I'll have to flip out the power supply later depending on the number and type of video cards added in at later date.

 

I ran a couple of comparisons with Boxx systems.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/aaronrumple/saved/

 

 

 

Oh man, I sure love this :- D

 

Basically, 4000 dollars can get you:

 

A) Custom build i7 5930k/ 32GB DDR4 memory/ 256GB SSD/2xTitanX

B) BOXX Apexx i7 4790k / 16GB DDR3 memory/ Quadro K4200 = Sum of its parts bellow 2000 dollars.

 

I am quite dissapointed to see their markup value to be only 100perc. more expensive, but oh well. Now that's a really hard choice to do, isn't it.

 

I esp. enjoyed reading a "review" by 'Autodesk technical "evangelist" of the Boxx machine as being

 

"Powerfully configured workstation features service, support, and attention to detail that justify the price tag."

 

Almost as Autodesk products themselves :- ) Attention to detail being what, the useless TUF-grade Gryphon board ? Custom cheap case that looks like prehistoric IBM servers ?

 

This is madness... I am not ever sorry for people who buy this stuff, I am angry at myself I didn't start such business myself.

 

 

Regarding your builds, I am bit confused since you have two configurations named Revit Desktop and Revit Base system. Which is the one you're keen to build ?

[aaronrumple]

The base system is the one I'm building up right now. Almost complete, except Titan X cards are hard to come by right now at list price. It is my only missing piece. The SSD is really candy in my view. With adequate memory, it really shouldn't make a huge impact on performance. I'd rather get the Raid 10 going first and I have some existing 2TB HD's in another system I might use.

 

If they released a GTX 980 with more memory, I might consider that as an option as well.

[pablohoney]

 

* I highly recommend against going for a P9X79 WS board or any other "dolled-up" motherboard over a P9X79 Pro or - how that is 2015 - a X99-A. You get VERY VERY few benefits - if any - with those: what do you need? more than 8 SATA ? More than 1 NIC? More PCIe 16x slots? There is no benefit paying $100-200 more for a motherboad. No, it is not "more stable" because it says WS in it, and in case of the X99 series, the power delivery is the same for the CPU = same OC potential too.

 

So what motherboard you recommend for 5820K and what for 4930K?? I want to overclock but I agree that I don't need so many different slots as you said. Just some basic graphic card, couple of HDD, and SSD in the future. Thats what I got for now:

 

CPU

Intel Core i7-5820K

Cooler

Thermalright SilverArrow IBE

Motherboard

ASUS X99 PRO

RAM

G.Skill DDR4 2133 MHz 2x8GB (16GB)

SSD

Samsung 840 Pro 128GB

HDD

Western Digital Caviar Black 1 TB

Case

Fractal R5

PSU

Antec edge 750w

DVD

Asus DRW-24B3S

OS

Windows 8.1

[RyderSK]

The base system is the one I'm building up right now. Almost complete, except Titan X cards are hard to come by right now at list price.

 

Now be happy to reside in US, given the strong dollar right now, and weak Euro, if I were to buy Titan X right now, the average model price is 1150 euros (1250 dollars) for the cheaper models (Gainward, Gigabyte,etc..).

 

Now I wouldn't really waste time waiting for 8GB version of 980(Ti). If it is indeed coming, it doesn't seem to be around corner at all, and the 300 dollar difference is not worth given the memory difference. 12GB is far more versatile, safer, more future-proof option for gpu-rendering, if that is what you're after.

 

The SSD is really candy in my view

 

Care to elaborate ? Do you refer to the Plextor M6e ? Or not needing it straight ahead (since it's not in your 'Base' system). In either case, get SSD from day one. It's not about performance, but comfort of use.