heni30 Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Zaha has been criticized for dealing with North Korea which is perceived as a fascist government. Their retort - perhaps the architecture will be an agent for changes in the system. Is there anything that you would not do for whatever reason? I don't think most of us would encounter an extreme situation - like rendering that new Klan campus for example. But maybe I'd have reservations working on a project that was going to disrupt an urban area in a negative way or something. I've run into a couple of people, architects and clients, who were absuive - I'd steer clear of people like that. Edited May 19, 2014 by heni30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandking Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Everything has its price but personally the last thing I'd do is a slaughterhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I turned down work for a cigarette company. Not sure I'd work for a military or weapons manufacturer. Im sure the North Korean people are lovely, I see no reason to turn down work from a whole nation. Im not familiar with the story though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_ear Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 "abusive", thers's also lazy, stupid, clueless. renderer : "hey with just a little bit more initiative and work we could make money doing something good" architect: .......................... .... ....... " i fart alot".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heni30 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) I know of so many people who complain about incompetent bosses. I did work for a designer and I could just see him antagonizing clients and losing them one by one. It was frustrating to not be able to do anything about it. Edited May 22, 2014 by heni30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveG Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Back on topic It's one giant grey area. If I refused work from everyone I thought was somehow morally or ethically wanting.... I'd be very very hungry by now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heni30 Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Interesting related article: http://archrecord.construction.com/features/2014/1406-The-Architects-Dilemma-When-To-Say-No.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Interesting related article: http://archrecord.construction.com/features/2014/1406-The-Architects-Dilemma-When-To-Say-No.asp Heh yeah good article. Seen bits of it started on Archdaily about month ago. I kind of agree with Patrik Schumacher that architecture has been tied too strongly to social concerns. It almost looks like every big arch competion (not only urban ones) is trying to save world hunger and create world peace outside of...creating the actual building. But saying it should be completely detached and not accounting any responsibility is far fetched. Zaha should have been vocal and it would help great deal when the workers started dying in Katar. The whole thing makes me sick. Soon, all the football fans will watch the championship there like nothing happened, when it fact thousands lives could have been saved if the championship wasn't given to such stupid choice of country. Can she be really proud of her creation knowing how many people had died ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I think Zaha Hadid is the last person that should be asked about liability / responsibility of people on site. Not because of job description, but because of the current circumstances that people have died. Its a legal and ethical argument that should be made isolated from a current incident. The development in question does a fine job of floating the argument, but should not play a part in the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Can she be really proud of her creation knowing how many people had died ? I don't know her, but I'm sure this is her typical reaction. Besides, if a big architect turns down a big job and lays off 1,000 employees, we'd all bitch at them. It's lose-lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I think Zaha Hadid is the last person that should be asked about liability / responsibility of people on site. Not because of job description, but because of the current circumstances that people have died. Its a legal and ethical argument that should be made isolated from a current incident. The development in question does a fine job of floating the argument, but should not play a part in the outcome. I don't imply she is anyhow responsible, not at all. But I think she should have said something different apart from "Sorry, don't care, not my fault". She's pretty 'big' persona, and if the championship organisers won't say anything, atleast her word would stir something up. They took slightly too alibistic stance imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) I don't imply she is anyhow responsible, not at all. But I think she should have said something different apart from "Sorry, don't care, not my fault". She's pretty 'big' persona, and if the championship organisers won't say anything, atleast her word would stir something up. They took slightly too alibistic stance imho. Agreed, but responsibility and its accompanying accountability underpins the whole discussion. This is the reason I think ZH should be left out, its too charged an issue when a tragic loss of life has happened. I think if you point to the ZH issue and then address the question to another starchitect you'll get a more considered and objective answer. And thats just not because ZH is covering herself from a legal/business standpoint, Im sure as a human being she feels it weiging on her, Im sure her lawyer tied her hands. Edit: I would add to that the notion that as an involved party, ZH has to take a defensive position, thus further diminishing her objectivity. Edited June 3, 2014 by Tommy L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heni30 Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) It would be interesting to hear builders' take on the Hadid phenomenon. Her forms are so unconventional and difficult to construct. I'm sure contractors curse her every minute of the day as they try to build structures that have no precedent; as they have to come up with new approaches and ways to build complex shapes. I think Gehry was sued by MIT for a dorm he designed because it had so much leaking and cracks. For instance these 2 stadiums would have very different scaffolding requirements which might be contributing directly to fatalities. And talking about ethics, H has been looking at way too many Georgia O'Keeffe books. Edited June 4, 2014 by heni30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Most of the workers died of dehydratation and over-working, they would have died if they were building simple boxes too. Mostly Indian workforce is considered and treated like slaves in not only Quatar, but most of the emirates. It's funny how little that bothers anyone as long as the bussiness with emiratis is good. To me they're so medieval and despicable that's the one sort of bussiness I would never do out of moral reasons. And I am usually very cynical person. Some Justice on way possibly... ? http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-06-03/the-odds-of-a-world-cup-in-qatar-in-2022-are-falling "details what many already suspected: that FIFA officials who awarded the 2022 World Cup to Qatar had been bribed" Edited June 3, 2014 by RyderSK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'm sure contractors curse her every minute of the day as they try to build structures that have no precedent; as they have to come up with new approaches and ways to build complex shapes. Cursing all the way to the bank. I am equally sure their fee is proportional to the complexity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 The construction company and the developers are more at fault than Zaha, they are the ones responsible for the workers welfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heni30 Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 Interesting development in the ZH story: http://archrecord.construction.com/yb/ar/article.aspx?story_id=id:vmlPOEGpVOSosuslOulsxz5yKtJr1lmdYUCt_2W-xCtZLp8KOek37aSzWQ8YsJqj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Depends how much money we're talking, and how unscrupulous the brief is. Everyone has a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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