Macbook pro - would it be alright in this situation? Already own workstation.

[percywong]

Guys,

 

Im sure you are tired of answering this question countless times, and im sorry yet believe its a different situation.

 

Summary: Second year undergrad b.arch student. I already own a workstation at home for 3d modelling/rendering. Heavy lifting basically. However I need a laptop for when im at university studio.

 

- Will a retina macbook pro with gt750m be more than right for viewports performance? I need fluid perfomance. Can I expect that for editting and finishing models I could not at home?(autocad,sketchup, rhino. etc)

 

- I am strictly only MODELLING with my mac. No rendering etc.

 

 

It doesn't take to much to realise that my "wants" exceeded my needs but im heavily invested in the fruit ecosystem to not keep taking advantage of it. This will be a gift from my dad.

 

Ps. Im not ruling out the dell m3800 as a potential alternative.

Ps2. "Workstation" - i7 3770k - hd7970

Edited June 6, 2014 by percywong

[Dimitris Tolios]

I have no beef with the rMBP other than pricing...but even @ $3-3500 (if you want dedicated GPU), it matches in performance $1200 laptops.

 

Is that adequate? Well, most of my colleagues in M.Arch used them (I was using a $900 Acer, eventually much faster as it had a tad newer Radeon M than what was available for Mac, and I had some change left to add RAM and SSD back in 2010). Ofc they did "fine".

 

Chances are you won't be doing crazy stuff with your rMBP and you will be fine...I don't know even if the IRIS pro model will do ok regardless.

We fail to realize how far laptops have been the last 5-6 years, switching from C2D to Sandy, Ivy and now Haswell i5/i7s, and offering "pathetic" mobile GPUs that are many times faster than what the norm was for pro workstations 5-6 years ago - while what we really do in architecture schools or even professional environments not that much different.

[RyderSK]

When I taught short class in arch college few months ago, people actually even used 13" low-performance ultrabooks :- ) As Dimistris sais performance-wise anythign really goes, it's question of what you get for your money and if you're comfortable with that.

 

To be fair at identical specs to XPS15 it's merely 30perc. more expensive (discounting lesser SSD too). m3800 on other hand matches that with exception for Quadro m1100, and was even closely in price until it fell in price with recent discounts.

 

The price in laptop rises with body (and rather slim factor and weight) and display panel, not really performance.

 

I'm perfectly comfortable with paying more for quality build and display. My sympathy currently lies more with Dell m3800/XPS15 (more the latter because GTX 750m is slightly more versatile).

 

So if you're deciding between Macbook and Dell the Macbook is still more cleaner designed, the body is beautiful. m3800/XPS15 tries to match closely...but it's not aluminium. But it works directly with Windows8, something I always install (and only! Windows8 master race ftw) on Macbooks too we had :- )

 

The price of vanity

Edited June 6, 2014 by RyderSK

[percywong]

Thanks for your answers guys!

 

Yes the damn price of vanity that tbh I may pay given that atleast, I still have my tower for real work.

 

Just a last question, does the m3800 k1100m workstation class gpu give a noticeable advantage against the 750m for the programs I will be using in windows/osx?

 

 

thanks again!

[RyderSK]

Here's a good comparison: (yes, it's for games) http://www.game-debate.com/gpu/index.php?gid=2006&gid2=1715&compare=quadro-k1100m-vs-geforce-gt-750m-2gb-gddr5

 

Same architecture, shader cores just different clock (in favour of 750). If the drivers provide advantage in current Nitrous/3dsMax2014+, I don't know, but if we extrapolate from other benchmarks (like those on Dimitris's blog), I would say not really much. And 750 will let you play games far more comfortably during classes, so I would rather go for that.

 

The thing with the price is that it doesn't go directly into trash. My girlfriend had MacbookPro late 2010 15", and 2.5!! years later, last fall, she sold it for 50perc. of its price. It also looked like completely new, you couldn't tell. The alum body is build so amazingly it holds its value like nothing else (you can't say that about some trashy plastic Acer/Lenovo/etc...). I am not even Apple fan at all (I am rather Windows/WindowsPhone fanatic) but I really like this aspect of it.

 

Last good thing, the display on these (both Mac and Dell) is imho very much worth it if you'll ever find doing some photo or render post-production. I have one of the most expensive MSI gaming ultrabooks, so, 2k laptop as well, but the display is downright trash like everything else that's not IPS/PLS based.

[percywong]

Thanks juraj, i'll wait for dimitris opinion aswell. Btw, is mac for autocad opengl based? given that autocad for windows is direct3d based.

[RyderSK]

No idea, I never bothered, I installed her glorious Windows from the moment she brought it home

[Dimitris Tolios]

Juraj,

Guess you haven't seen a bent past-2011 unibody and the beachin coming after the realization =)

 

A friend got her brand new rMBP bended somehow - she claims it was done by the service ppl who checked on her SSD having some issues...go figure.

 

As for the resale value - I don't buy it: spend $3000 today for a 15 rMBP (not the decked out one), you get $1500 back in two years = you've lost $1500 circa 2014 (=more than $1500 circa 2014+2).

 

Get a $1000-1400 Wintel today with better or identical specs overall (mainly GPU, RAM, SSD size etc, I won't split hair for 100Mhz @ CPU or "faster SSD") , you break it in a year, you replace it with the current at the time faster model for the same or less, you are still in the black.

 

Better resale value is a very subjective metric when you drop 2x + the monies to begin with.

 

Percy:

I totally get the rMBP vanity - but I don't get the dedicated GPU & rMBP 15 as a requirement.

If what you want is mainly a good, highly portable laptop - that happens to be a gorgeous MBP - you can go for a rMBP 13.

The IRIS graphics should be good enough for most stuff...yes it will struggle with the really tough stuff, but so should the GT750m aswell.

It can be had for half the money or less, it is smaller, lighter, more portable. Get a good small monitor to hook up with it for longer sessions / overnights @ school (or get a ITX hackintosh with the change from not-getting-the-15 + screen).

 

Yes, the ACAD for OSX should be OpenGL (2011 was, haven't touched later versions - but is there an option?).

[percywong]

Hey dimitri, thanks man!

 

The 13 incher only have an i5 dual core.. Still sufficient?

[RyderSK]

Well, first time I very much disagree with you on all few points you start :- )

 

First, I still hold on the resale value, it's pretty much luxury/high-end merchandise, the fact you can still get some money back so you can repeat

the cycle is pretty good, because alternative would be that you get nothing and are stuck with full price for next cycle.

So if you sell it sucesfully, you spend 1500 dollars for using really NICE stuff. It's not wasted money, it's same money you use to buy smartphone, workstation,etc.. or any tech.

 

Option 2 is to start directly with mid-end product costing 1500 dollars. You enjoy rather identical or better perfomance, without any sort of added value (high quality display, thin, light-weight and very aesthetic design, vanity points for trendy stuff), and after two years, it has no re-sale value, so you have same budget to repeat the cycle. (of course, both option counted for sake of argument that you will eventually upgrade, I just normalized it for 2 year)

 

Veronika's sister has 2013 Ivy Bridge rMBR 15", (650m GT), it's absolutely stunning.

 

So all in,all out, you end up spending the same amount of money, but in option one, you get superior product. I am quite sensitive when it comes to cheap laptops. If you build a cheap deskop, you won't loose much, it will just be louder, or slightly uglier or has less feature. But the difference in laptop is big. Thin factor and weight being top contributors, down to vanity stuff like having something nice to go around with, to superior display panel, which only comes with high-end models and even then only in certain market segments (even the most expensive Alieware still has 'only' TN panel).

My rather very nice and minimal MSI 17" ultrabook is already something I would be ashamed to come forward to my clients with. The image alone can sometimes be worth it in bussiness and will pay quickly back the investment.

 

Neither the suggestion to save money with 13" option. 15" is already so-so for any sort of modeling, and if he could connect it to monitor (?) at school, why would he even want a laptop in first place ?

 

Imho it's not wasted money at all, but the premium can be shaved by going directly with Dell XPS15/m3800, equal high-end, but cheaper. But that's about it in this class.

Edited June 7, 2014 by RyderSK

[Dimitris Tolios]

Percy: I was positive that at some point the rMBP 13 had faster CPUs (i.e. as fast as the 15). Guess going that thin really took a toll...Still I don't know how bad it will be for rendering...a Haswell i5 boosting @ 2.9-3GHz is not really worse than a i7 boosting 3.2GHz - most modelling apps are single threaded anyways, but I see where you are getting at.

 

 

Also, the rMBP 15 is a tad cheaper than @ launch. So my prices above are a tad on the high side.

 

 

Juraj: I agree in some points, but you are exaggerating - a tool's performance is primarily judged on performance, and since you are extracting same or better performance out of a different tool, you cannot name the rMBP "better" off the but. The only thing it is, is "more luxurious", more sexy. That's of subjective value.

 

 

You are also assuming that a rMBP will maintain a good % of its value, but at the same time a Dell, Asus or Lenovo etc will be worthless after a couple of years - something that ofc is not valid. If one would maintain 50%, the other would maintain at least 30-40%...eBay could convince you.

Is easier to sell a MBP? Sure.

 

 

But even starting from "scratch" as you say, you extract more performance with same or less money using the other brands, and that has some really significant value for your money. Far more objective than the - undeniable, yet superfluous - sexiness that still costs 2x as much give or take for the GT750 model. Yes, you get a 512 SSD that no $1200 model has...is it that important?

 

 

And why not a Razer Blade if you are going to be running windows on it, negating the OSX "advantage", can spare the change and want something sexy?

 

For the external monitor: I bought a 22" 1080p 1st year @ school to "dock" my laptop @ home as I always liked/had dual screens. Often I would drag it @ school for long studio sessions and thought it did worth it. Ofc I went to school in Cali = was driving anyways to campus and had parking really close to my studio space. That's a big factor. After a few months, half a dozen of my colleagues were bringing along their screens for long sessions and/or all-nighters - heck, some of them would bring along iMac 27"s!

Edited June 7, 2014 by dtolios

[percywong]

Hey man, I think i sort it out finally. Again I have my desktop to do the 80% of work. My mac will be used always in osx for photoshop, some autocad/revit for simple modelling editing and...well life. Rendering will be made exclusively on desktop.

 

thanks for your answers!

[RyderSK]

..

 

The resale value of Mac doesn't stem from objective performance value, but from mythical value Apple fans hold on Apple items. Your potential buyer is getting cheaper Macbook, that he all he sees. You tackle it too much with logic, I've seen the emails of people who wrote me when I was selling it.

So no, Mac will have vastly higher resale value than comparatively same performance other brand. Including even trendy brands like Razer or Alienware.

 

On other criteria, you still only talk about "sexiness" a suggest Razer. Even the best Razer doesn't have IPS/PLS display, I've seen it and it's only notch better than my MSI. That's still a gaming panel with its positives but not great one. And you're already paying a high premium.

 

Dells XPS has more logical 256GB SSD, 750m and slightly even slimmer body, same weight for 2k. So that is the reasonable alternative high-end.

Razer is just more expensive MSI/Asus, and still valid choice, after all I too bought gaming ultrabook itself (but that's because I put equal emphasis to work and playing something when I travel heh). But it's not the same league in quality. The display alone isn't.

 

I also didn't named Macbook Pro better in perfomance or overall, just that it is in fact a good buy even for the premium money. And it is, because, most people really don't put such great emphasis on performance when it comes to mobile platform. To some, the thin factor and weight alone outweight performance reasons completely. And it still have some performance advantage, mostly in GPU compared to best performing 15" Ultrabooks. But for heavy premium in Macbook (to do their choice of Iris/750m off swap), but not in Dell.

 

He already mentions he has a Workstation that will do MOST of his work. So it makes sense to get some other value on top of pure performance/value he could get for low budget. If he has WS home, it's sufficient to say he doesnt work all-night purely in studio, which lot of people don't do anymore ( my girlfriend never done a night like that and she's top of class architecture student).

 

I am just working with that he wants a Macbook, I don't feel like antagonizing that choice, to me it was reasonable choice since I first had one in my hands, but I would otherwise never even use any other of their products. Just putting some counter-arguments :- )

Edited June 7, 2014 by RyderSK

[Nic H]

i would never buy a pc laptop

far too ugly imo.

 

pc box for studio

mac laptop for travel

 

:WINK:

 

tbh most computers are the same now days.

spend 2 k and you are gonna get something pretty capable