heni30 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I did this quickie to help out another renderer. It was for a developer and the basic instructions were - throw something together that has the feel of a casual outdoor patio. I came up with this layout (no time for changes) and they were very pleased. Furniture was selected from Turbosquid. Now the developer likes it so much, he wants the 3d model to hand over to his architect to re-create it verbatim. There is nothing to the model and the furniture was pre-made. They could just use a pdf of the plan view for their purposes. The main value was the arrangement in plan that works well. It's not rocket science and took like 15 minutes to work out, but I can't help thinking that they are getting a big chunk of design (valuable to them) for free. At what point do you go...........er...this is going beyond just fixing up loose ends - give me some more money! It happened so fast that they was little time to discuss any fee issues in detail. Or should you say - sure, this one's on me - and have a happy client who will come back with many more jobs. Edited June 10, 2014 by heni30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 In this case, I'd just hand over the model with a quick chat with the client saying that it's not your normal practice so its a one off, so if you need any more you'd be more than happy the have a chat to discuss fees. Be upfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I remember something similar happening to me, the client just doesnt weant to have to think too hard about his next move. How you handle it depends on the existing relationship with the client. If you get repeat work from them, do them a favor. If you havent heard a peep since you did the image and it was a one-off, ask for some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 You said you did it to help out a renderer, I assume they needed an image to sell an idea and that's exactly what happened. Now the client wants to take it further, that wasn't a part of the original deal and now you’re in a position to profit from your work. Don't pass up that opportunity, if you give it away now you’re saying to the client you don't think your work is worth anything and next time they will remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 It's a tough spot. The lesson here, never work for free. It might sound like a butthead thing to do and not help out a buddy, but it always ends poorly for the person working for free. Let's take a look at the chart again, shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Amazing chart. Sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klonk Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Yeah, that was funny! Who says no to their mother??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heni30 Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) Basically they want to take a peek at the layout in plan which they like in the view. It's true that even though it took 15 minutes to layout, but that came about from long years of experience. An interesting anecdote: This woman is looking at some watercolors at an art show and she is scoffing at the what she believes to be high prices. She asks the artist "How long did it take you to paint that?" He replies "Oh, about 2 hours and 25.......................years!" Also - how much would the client have to pay if he walks into an architect's office and asks for a roof top terrace design from scratch - exploring different options (plans with SketchUps), choosing furniture, materials, landscaping, etc. Edited June 11, 2014 by heni30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Penaloza Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I agree that never do anything for free, also you already give a hand to your client or contact person, if I am in your position my answer would be, I will be more than glade to create the set of drawings from this rendering for you, this is my fee, if they don't agree, well they already have the render they can figure out. It does not matter how long it took you to create that or anything that you do, what it count is you experience and know how to do your job, that's why they hire you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notamondayfan Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Personally I would have just either handed over the model, or a top view showing the plan. If you had spent days choosing a layout, researching the space, how it flows, etc, then granted charge for the info, but as it's something you threw together, OK it wasn't random but experience, then the actual cost to you is not worth asking for. I would rather build a relationship with the client, and they are more likely to trust your design decisions in the future, which will lead to more work. If you start penny-pinching, they might think twice about using you again. Also it sounds like the client is someone you want to work with again as the project went smoothly and quickly. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The problem this could lead to is being asked multiple questions about the layout. Then being asked to just to one quick change. Then just another quick change. Then really, this is the last quick change we'll ask you to do. Then, no honestly, scout's honor, this is the last change we'll ask you to do. All being done with the expectation that it will be for free since the first one you did for them was free. If you ask for money after the 5,000th revision they will hit you with the puppy dog eyes. It's a slippery slope to walk on, that is for one thing. One side says that it could lead to more paying work and they'll file you in the "this guy did us a solid that one time" pile. The other side says that since you work for free they'll never really respect you as a professional because no professional in their right mind would work for free. They'll file you in the sucker/chump pile. [video=youtube;mj5IV23g-fE] A few take aways from the epic old man rant. You gotta pay me. How dare you call me and ask me to work for free. You could get publicity. I said, "Lady, tell that to someone a little older than you that's just fallen off the turnip truck." The only value for me is if you put money in my hand. You should do a freebie for an architecture firm? What is the firm out on the street corner with a tin cup and an eye patch? I sell my soul, but at the highest rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 That's priceless...I'm going to burn your house to the ground....man I wish I'd used that line once or twice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Penaloza Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 No I don't think is penny-pinching when you ask to get pay for what you do for a living, if they where honest or they really care about you as an artist or professional they will not ask for freebies, they already got a render for free, they should ask, "how much will you charge us to give us the complete design?" that's the way it should work, it does not matter if take you 1 minute or a full day, it should be charged any ways. If I post a room scene here for all of us to lit and render, it may take me 20 minutes to get it done, someone else may take the whole day, Should I get pay less than that person? With all my years of experience as Artist/freelancer, I have learned that you'll always find two type of clients, One that will ask you how much to do a project for them, then they will agree in your price and ask you what you need, then they won't have a problem when you ask for fist half at beginning, they will deliver on time and pay when job done. Then there is the other guys who will ask you to do something "really quick" to get a project, and boy if he get it it will give you more work that you can handle, then he won't get that job, he'll ask you for other freebie, he may agree on pay, but that payment will come only if he gets the job, and even that check that you are planing to use to pay your electric bill the next month won't come on time or if it come it will bounce, and the final payment will come very late, so even if you charge little so he is happy all the time spend in changes after changes and time waiting for your payment won't even close to what you charge. Believe me this is always a red flag of the client that you don't want to work with. To the original post, they already got a professional rendering for free, what else they want, if they got that render for free, who will stop them to ask for more freebies? their architects will do the plans for free too? are they gonna build that for free? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heni30 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) I agree with what you said but just to clarify, when I said helped out I meant my friend subbed it out to me and I did get paid fairly for it. Edited June 12, 2014 by heni30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zdravko Barisic Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 The books can written about this topic...but there only 2 kinds of human race, wolves and sheeps. Personally, I would not like to neither of them. Thats the point. Everyrthing else is just writing the novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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