shayanf Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 hey guys... Im an architecture student and iwant to work as a 3d modeler and visualizer... for that purpose I'v tried to learn 3ds max as an all-rounder (BTW i know how to use autocad-sketchup-photoshop and a bit of vray ) but the problem is although i've put considerable amount of time on learning 3ds max i still dont seem to get comfortable with it ...! i mean modeling almost everything is full of problems . so i thought maybe i should start learning rhino and model everything in it and then export it to max for rendering with vray...... so what do you think ?? is rhino really more handy and easy to use ?? is it suitable for regular architecture ( i mean like modeling a normal apartment or a minimalistic villa ) or is it just best for organic shapes and stuff like that ?? and what about interior design ?? does it have the right tools for modeling small details and decorative stuff ?? what about elevation design ?? and finally does rendering an exported rhino file (exported with npower plugin ) in max affects the rendering time ? Thank U so so much for your time....and pls give a complete answer ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 You're an architecture student but you want to work in visualisation? Why not become an architect instead? If you are serious about getting into visualisation, then no; don't switch to Rhino. 3DS Max is the de-facto industry standard for visualisation, and if you can't get to grips with that then you're going to be in for a bit of a rough ride. What a lot of people try to do is run before they can walk, don't try to learn every single aspect of the program (it is an enormous piece of software), just learn what you need to know in a step-by-step manner. You also mention elevation design, but this isn't really part of arch vis. Yes, making an elevation look pretty might be part of your job remit, but as for elevation design then 3DS max is not what I'd recommend. Do you want to be a 3D visualiser, or do you want to be an architect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shayanf Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 thank u for your replay chris...yes i want to be an architect but i need to model and render my own designs and maybe other architects designs for making money. and i know that 3ds is the best in terms of rendering and visualization and i will still use it for those purposes if i decide to make my models in rhino... but my Q was that witch of the two is best suited for architectural Modeling ? thank u again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Wouldn't that be a conflict of interest to be modelling and rendering another architects designs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shayanf Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 no ! why ?? it will help me to be more pro in modeling and visualization and especially it will help me make some money to pay for my university and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Right, well I personally don't know any architectural practice that uses Rhino for architectural design. I know a lot of uni's use it for its parametrics and freeform stuff. Visuals are usually done in Sketchup/3DS max/Modo/Blender. Architectural designs/drawings/CAD is done in AutoCAD/Microstation/Archicad/Revit. Ultimately no one package does it all perfectly. The closest you're likely to get is Revit/Archicad, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Frankly, Rhino + Grasshopper is way over rated. With the right tools and a little bit of knowledge, you can do everything in Max that you can do in Rhino and have it be much faster modeling, much better quality model, much cleaner geometry, and much easier to fit into a production pipeline. You just have to, wait for it, learn a little bit and practice with Max. Think about it this way, you want to make money. So you model in Rhino and import to Max. Now your client makes a model change. So you have to go back to Rhino, fix it, re-export, re-import, re-fix all the mess that Rhino models give you, re-apply materials and then render again. If you just stay in max, all you have to do is make the model change and hit render. Which production pipeline is more cost effective? If you are doing elevation design, the best tool for that is pencil + paper. Nothing can beat the speed of sketching when you are doing initial elevation design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shayanf Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 ok thank u again for your time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shayanf Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 hi scott....thank u for your replay. i think you mentioned a point that i was missing ( import / export issue ). but based on my googling and having some experience with both softwares i dont see why do you say that the modeling process is faster in max ?? and especially why the geometry is cleaner in it ? models created in rhino really seem solid and clean ...at least compared to my models created in max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 hi scott....thank u for your replay. i think you mentioned a point that i was missing ( import / export issue ). but based on my googling and having some experience with both softwares i dont see why do you say that the modeling process is faster in max ?? and especially why the geometry is cleaner in it ? models created in rhino really seem solid and clean ...at least compared to my models created in max How long have you been using Max? What is your definition of "considerable amount" of time? Do you know how to model in Max, I mean properly. Have you been taught properly or did you learn it at an architecture school? Max can be considerably faster due to the sheer amount of scripts and tools out there. Once you learn the real in's and outs, especially up in the Graphite Tools, you can do just about anything quickly. Max itself doesn't create awful models and neither does Rhino. The quality of the model is 100% related to the user doing the modeling. That's like me saying all Nissan cars suck because they keep crashing on me. That could be true, or I could learn how to drive properly. Though that being said, the export process from Rhino to Max can create a pretty jumbled mess of polygons. Really, that can be true for all export processes. You add another step where something can and usually does go wrong. This is why staying in the same software for as long as you can is very important to your workflow. Keep everything in the fewest number of places possible and you'll minimize the effect of Murphy's Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moir Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Right, well I personally don't know any architectural practice that uses Rhino for architectural design. I know a lot of uni's use it for its parametrics and freeform stuff. Visuals are usually done in Sketchup/3DS max/Modo/Blender. Architectural designs/drawings/CAD is done in AutoCAD/Microstation/Archicad/Revit. Ultimately no one package does it all perfectly. The closest you're likely to get is Revit/Archicad, I suppose. Everything is designed in Rhino (and lots of Grasshopper) at the office I work in- guess it depends what sort of project the practise specialize in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moir Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Frankly, Rhino + Grasshopper is way over rated. With the right tools and a little bit of knowledge, you can do everything in Max that you can do in Rhino and have it be much faster modeling, much better quality model, much cleaner geometry, and much easier to fit into a production pipeline. You just have to, wait for it, learn a little bit and practice with Max. I agree. So you model in Rhino and import to Max. Now your client makes a model change. So you have to go back to Rhino, fix it, re-export, re-import, re-fix all the mess that Rhino models give you, re-apply materials and then render again. Max models are pretty useless compared to Rhino models when it comes to useable CAD documentation though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonstewart Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Max models are pretty useless compared to Rhino models when it comes to useable CAD documentation though... That is what everyone is trying to say...There are different workflows depending on what you are doing. If you are doing Arch Viz for a 3rd party designer then you develop a workflow that works well for that situation. The most typical would be getting CAD from the Architect/Designer and building up the scene in Max. If you are Designing the project (and need the document it) and want to visualize it then that is a completely different situation. At work we use Revit all day long to design/document projects. When it comes time to render them out there are different workflows I use depending on what it is. If it is an exterior I will export from Revit, I already have everything setup with the building on the site and with some minimal cleanup (sometimes more than others) I can be ready to apply materials and render. If I am doing a Interior I will generally just start from scratch in Max. Close up Revit geometry sucks and it takes way more time than is practical to clean it up, add detail where required, etc. so it is just faster to start over. To the OP...You will have to decide what the best most practical workflow is for you. Even in my day to day working life I am switching up my methods and trying to figure out what the best workflow is for this specific situation. If you have to draw out your projects in CAD (acad, revit, or otherwise) that would be my first step. Then you have to ask yourself what the fastest way to translate that into the quality level you need for your rendering. On top of that you have to ask yourself if that wall over there may move or this or that may change. Until you try out a couple workflows you will not know what works best for you. Now if you go get a job at a firm they will already have workflows established...They will want you to work like everyone else because lets say Jim over there needs help with a tight deadline but he works in 3ds and you work in Rhino...Well now that is a problem isn't it? It really depends on where you see yourself going in the future. If you want to be in the viz industry chances are you are going to use max so there is no point in taking the easy way out for a while to have to learn it in a year when you are already expected to know it. Now, if you are going to focus on design and visualize on the side then you have more flexibility and can worry about design first and viz second. It has taken me a long time to get comfortable in Max and I am still learning. Slowly I actually became productive instead of just taking 1 step forward and 2 steps backward but once you understand what you are doing it really is quite fast to model in Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notamondayfan Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 How many YEARS have you been learning Max? 3D modelling, in any application, isn't something you can just pick up over night, it takes 1000s hours of practice, trial and error, head scratching, and of course research. It might be better to ask for on what you are stuck on, rather than giving up and changing. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shayanf Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 How many YEARS have you been learning Max? 3D modelling, in any application, isn't something you can just pick up over night, it takes 1000s hours of practice, trial and error, head scratching, and of course research. It might be better to ask for on what you are stuck on, rather than giving up and changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shayanf Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 How many YEARS have you been learning Max? 3D modelling, in any application, isn't something you can just pick up over night, it takes 1000s hours of practice, trial and error, head scratching, and of course research. It might be better to ask for on what you are stuck on, rather than giving up and changing. Dean Ive been practicing for past three mounts or so (with online tutorials )..... I know its still super early for me to expect mastering a huge programme like max but it thought maybe rhino is a better way to go as probably most of my clients will be architecture students who dont know any 3d software and i have to make a 3d model based on some sketches and stuff .....! and rhino seems to be better suited for quick projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete V Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Hey, architecture student here. I am trying to do the opposite I am working with Rhino for 2 years now. Like the others said, it really depends on how you create your workpipeline. Currently i am Rhino using with visualarq (for inserting walls,windows etc.) and with vray plugin, for rendering. I am pretty happy with the results, i have become faster in modelling. When it comes to modelling, i prefer Rhino over Archicad/Revit because you can make anything you want, need a custom door->5min modelling in Rhino. The issue is that Rhino is pretty slow for Rendering, at least Max+Vray is faster, and that the workglow between Max-Autocad-Revit is better. But before learning Max, i would suggest to learn Sketch Up, it is free and a huge loooad of architecture offices use it because of that. Thats my experience, still gonna learn max this summer, but my Rhino will stay my thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krishutchison Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I am an architect and do a fair bit of archvis as part of the process. Also it is good to know a bit about visualization before you ask for miracles. Max does seem like a better piece of software. Especially for integration back and forth between cad and models. Sketchup was pretty good when it was part of Google but has gone downhill since it was sold off. The only good thing about Sketchup is that there is no learning curve. Just switch it on and push the buttons. I would love to find an alternative to Sketchup that is just as fast to model with but have not found anything that comes close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numerobis Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 HSketch Up, it is free and a huge loooad of architecture offices use it because of that. The last free version is v8. Sure, you can still use the newer versions, but it is not more legal than using any other pirated soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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